That being said, my concern with CDs is strictly in the play back of them and it sure seems to me that every player I have sounds quite a bit different when switched in to the exact same system.

I would love to hear some discussions about the CDPs themselves and what to look for when purchasing a new one. All this bit talk and over sampeling stuff goes well beyond my Vintage approach and love of the Altec sound stage.

How does one determine what to buy to play back CDs. Do I go to particular brands like Sony, Onkyo, Toshiba? Do I look for numbers or do I step up to a DVD player that will also play my stereo CDs?

All of my equipment is old by most standards but I would like to have a player that can play back most of my CDs at the best sound quality I might be able to expect from them.

My Turn Tables are here to stay and I do love my vinyl but I can't deny the CDs are allot more user friendly if only I could get them to sound more real.

I've since upgrade(while going down in cost) to a Behringer SRC2496 as a DAC, and it's hands down a much better sounding unit than the Entech 203.2. Entech has a better unit out now, but with a close to 500 dollar street price and what i'm hearing from the inexpensive(comparatively) behringer, i'm really not even interested in the better Entech.

Only drawbacks with the behringer are it's XLR analog outs and non adjustable analog output, it's too hot for vintage gear unputs and needs to be attenuated, i just used a pair of 20db inline attenuators. If Behringer had built variability into the analog outputs, it'd be a winner all the way around.

There are certainly better units than the Behringer out there, but i'd wager you'll have to spend several hundred dollars more to get an audible improvement.

Just my .02, i'm sure everyone's mileage will vary here.

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Born with a fork
in a world of soup

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Audio_by_Goodwill
Michigan, USA

Having a digital output is the minimum requirement for me. Then you can always add an external DAC as Bowtie said. Years ago I bought a MSB link 3 DAC and I use it to compare the output of older players to it, connected to the digital output. It sure impresses me every time. Google the reviews, they are unusually impressive. It makes a great 'better/worse' standard for testing CD players that you might get your hands on.

http://www.sound4sale.com/products/link3.php

Bfish, you need to stir the pot some more.

Where a difference is with the broadcast units
these units will play CD RW or audio DVD or
Plain Cd with analogue conversion or by passed to your preferred converter.

Here is such unit very expensive used by radio stations

I know a guy that builds some very nice amps, and he's one of those component-counters that freaks out over the use of an extra cap or 2 along the signal path. He insists on first order crossovers for the same reason. Only botique cables for him. He has some vinyl and tape, but mostly listens to CDs played on a $49 BestBuy deck. On one hand, he fits the fetishist label to a T, on the other, he couldn't care less.

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bfish

"We're going ALL the way, till the wheels fall off and burn!"
Bob Dylan, from Brownsville Girl

Realizing I'm old and my hearing is suspect here is what I've discovered that pleases my ears. If you are looking to spend little then buy a used Denon with a model number 1500 or above. Noteworthy models that fly under the E-bay radar are the 2560, 2700, 3000 and the 3300 which is actually considered by many as a cut above the 3520-3560 group. The 1650AR is also a good player but it's the hot ticket on E-bay and it goes for 400.00 usually. The 1500 MK II and 1560 are also decent sounding. I paid less than 200.00 for the Denon 3300 which has balanced outputs along with digital outputs. Also in the old vein I have a Sony 707ESD that sounds very good to me.

One criteria I use to judge a potential candidate is weight. The transport in my Denon 3300 and Sony 707 weigh more than the entire Oppo whatever model that was the bargain basement darling a few months ago. If it weighs 5 lbs. how long will it last?

In newer I bought a Roksan Kandy MKIII and was really disappointed in it's sound. It sounds bright and nearly lifeless to me.

Last weekend I went to an audio festival and heard a 11K Wadia and it sounds good but then for that kind of money it should. You can do as well for a lot less money IMHO.

I have a McIntosh MCD-205 that is the best sounding player I own. Even though it's a changer. It uses the Nak 5 disc stacker which is a quality unit.

Anyway, that's just my ramblings on cd players.

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Life is too short to be taken Cirrus.

Yeah, the old knee on the curve of diminishing return...primary consideration for the non-fetishist.

Good info Mike, thanks!

My system is totally Vintage, 30 year old receiver, turn table and speakers so all I have is RCA inputs and a space in my entertainment center to house a CDP or DVDP 17" wide x 5" high.

No way can I get away with computers, DACs and all the above mentioned gear in the wifes living room and even worse is my complete disgust with all the new technology that requires learning and a rats nest of wires going to devices I have no desire to learn how to use.

I need a simple and very uncomplicated box that can go into a very standard stereo system but will play CDs with decent sound quality.

You guys are talking about sound engineering while I'm asking for something to Veg out on the couch and listen to tunes with.

In my post i did mention the Tascam Broadcast did
come with digital out and analogue out.

Therefore one can use a superior converter.

I have an old $500 dollar cd player. I've recently compared with a new 60 dollar upsampling dvd player. Well, what do you know? The new dvd with 24bit sampling sounded much better than my 10+ years old cd player.

Gary. If you are looking for a cd player check this post out. http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=digital&m=138098

But in the end, the speakers matter the most. The Altecs!

Tim

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Some where over the rainbow-upgrading will end?

Richard C.

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"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is."

Richard C, All I can say is I have 4 different players and every one is distinctly different in the way it sounds.

A while back, when I frequented AK, many there raved about a cheap Toshiba DVD player that was great. SD 3980 or 3990. I got the 3990 and then found out some internal tweek is necessary to get the most out of it. I'm not a tech and have not done the tweek and I don't like the way it sounds at all.

I have a Sony SCD-CE 595 that does SA/CD well but is just mediocre with regular CDs.
I have a Sony DVP-C660 that does fine with DVDs yet is very finicky about playing any CD-rs I burn and does not sound all that great in 2 Ch. stereo.
Lastly I have a Yamaha CDC-901 that is the best sounding of the bunch but is getting old and could probably stand some adjustment and cleaning that I would leave to a pro if it is even worth bothering with.

Friends tell me Onkyo's are good units but I hate buying anything on Evilbay and can't imagine how a CDP could survive the likes of UPS drop kicking it accross the nation.

Others tell me to go tubes, some name like Jodda or something close and I shy away from the big bucks for an unknown to me possibility.

I don't really even know what a DAC is but I have just one compartment in my entertainment center for a CD or DVD player and can't remake it just to upgrade my CD capabilities.

I'd just like to find a simple CD or DVD player that does a good job and does not cost an arm and leg.

The premise here is that external DAC's use higher quality components and circuitry thus rendering better sound quality than the factory chipsets in most consumer CD and DVD players.

I'll be the first to agree with you that CD players, much like preamplifiers, amplifiers, phono cartridges, and loudspeakers ALL sound different. Many cheaper units' D/A converters don't cover the full 20hz-20khz spectrum, they'll work fine as a transport with an external DAC, but their stand alone performance leaves much to be desired.

My frustration with CD's and players is that i have yet to find a single unit that makes everything sound good.

Consider that in the case of the first generation Entec Number Cruncher, it's a relatively small unit, maybe 6x8x2 inches and has no controls that require regular accessibility, so it can be located behind something or basically anyplace you can fit it in, a DAC doesn't have to be a full size component and many aren't.

Connectivity is very simple, it requires either a coaxial(one side of a normal RCA to RCA patch cord) or optical cable (some CD/DVD players come with them included) to run between the player and DAC, then the left and right RCA's that normally went into the back of your CD/DVD player are plugged into the converter. In the case of Entec, they use an external 16VDC wall wart for power.

The sad reality that i've discovered, and nobody told me this before i took the plunge, is that while an external DAC will be a clear and undeniable improvement for most CD's, they can indeed take some of the earlier CD releases the other way and render them worse than some stock players.

Like with so many things in audio, there just isn't a "one size fits all" here.

EDIT: one important thing i should add is that if you have enough available line inputs, you can leave the CD/DVD player in question connected via it's own analog outputs to one input while it's digitally connected to a DAC feeding a second input allowing you to do direct A/B comparisons in real time.

I've been doing a very informal A/B comparison with a pioneer DV-525 and the behringer unit. The external DAC is an immediately noticeable improvement on about 6 out of 10 tracks, the stock player does better on 2 or 3 out of 10, and 1 or 2 need more critical listening before i can make a choice.

Everyone's mileage is sure to vary here.

I am still in the "One size fits all" catagory with alot of this stuff and just wish I could find a real good all in one CD player to do music duty in my ALL vintage systems.

No offense at all to those who stay technically up to date but I have many very simple Vinyl recordings that will blow just about any digital remakes right to the gutter and I just don't care to learn all the new and complicated or expensive gear to do it.

You are correct in that much of the audio world has changed yet we all tend to hang here with allot of the best speakers that have ever been available but it won't perform with the new source stuff like it did 30 years ago with a great deal less technology.

I'm not sure where price figures in for you, but you'll need to spend some coin to get something good one way or the other. If you want something mass-produced you're probably looking at more money, something from more of a boutique-type company will likely give you better bang for the buck. FWIW an example of the latter is the offering from Decware http://www.decware.com/newsite/mainmenu.htm?/newsite/ZCD.htm&intro

The player itself is a mass-produced Tascam pro unit, the output section is from Decware. While a small company they have been making quality amps for over fifteen years and offering CD players (of which this is the latest) for at least five years. I haven't heard it, but by all accounts that I've read it is outstanding and based on my experience with my Decware amp I don't find it hard to believe at all. Of course I have no relation other than a happy customer etc.

Dave

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"When words fail, music speaks" - HC Anderson

I hear some good things about Marantz cd5001. The cheapest I found online is here http://www.garrett-smarthome.com/proddetail.php?prod=CD5001

No personal connection with them. I also hear that used dvd players are way to go. Many are dumping them due to the blue ray "revolution."

You should be able to buy a used panasonic rp-91 for under $100. It suppose to be a real good bargain as a cd player.

I like the reference to mid-fi. To me that signals good enough...and I like that. It may mean something else to other people, but to me it means knowing when to stop buying. So much of the time there will be reviews that go like this:
This xxxx is OK for normal mass market types, BUT the xxxx "Very Limited Edition" for $10,000. is the difference between night and day! You may have to get to know the designer/builder before you can be put on a list to purchase.
I get very tired reading those kinds of reviews. I don't know whether the guy is the worlds greatest lier or what!

Anyway, I have noticed optical and coaxial digital outputs on some fairly cheap CD/DVD players. Does this mean that they have the "potential" of being decent "IF" they are connected to a DAC?