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Topic: Anyone with original WE or Altec 755 please look inside

nickmckinney
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posted May 11, 2008 10:01 PM

Hello, my first post here. For those that don't know me I was the engineer/designer of the TD drivers at Lambda Acoustics.

I have a new/old project that I am starting to work on, the Western Electric - Altec 755. I need some help though from those who have an original one (only early A models) that has never been reconed or rebuilt. There might be an engineering number on the back side of the cone, if you find any please PM me.

Also anybody with an original cone from one of these, even just pieces of it let me know. I am having it analyzed to see the properties but need to make sure we get enough of a representative sample. I only have a single cone here from an early Altec 755A but its unknown if its original or was ever reconed years ago (it sure looks original)

Lets just say I have access to the original cone molds for these drivers, now we need to figure out the original pulp and see if its still possible to make new today.

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bfish
Senior Hostboard Member

posted May 12, 2008 11:31 AM

Being in the biz, you should know how it's done.
Write them a check, and order a run.

--------------------

bfish

"We're going ALL the way, till the wheels fall off and burn!"
Bob Dylan, from Brownsville Girl

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nickmckinney
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posted May 12, 2008 07:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bfish:
Being in the biz, you should know how it's done.
Write them a check, and order a run.

Actually in this case since this particular cone has not been produced since the early 1960's the original manufacturer doesn't know/remember what formulation they used. The cones on the C models are very different from the early A models and most of the recone parts sold in the last 30+ years have been the C cone versions.

I was offered a chance to have an original A cone analyzed by the original manufacturer of it and I think I have one, but I am not 100% sure. If I can just confirm the engineering number matches another A cone then its a done deal with the cone I already have.

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Audio_by_Goodwill
Senior Hostboard Member

posted May 12, 2008 09:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nickmckinney:
Actually in this case since this particular cone has not been produced since the early 1960's the original manufacturer

Who is the original manufacturer? I wouldn't have guessed that the original manufacturer would still be in business.

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Audio_by_Goodwill
Michigan, USA

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bfish
Senior Hostboard Member

posted May 12, 2008 09:38 PM

I see. I figured they kept better records.

'Fraid I can't help with the verification. Could be problematic knowing conclusively that any 50-60 yr old speaker is all original, there'll always be that bit of doubt, just as you have with yours.

With that particular cone, duplicating the process may be as challenging as duplicating the pulp formula. In that regard, you might find something of use in Hawley's cone process patents from the '30s;

1872583
1952169
1984018
2013955
2017496

Good Luck!

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nickmckinney
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posted May 14, 2008 12:42 PM

I am not making the cones myself, I will leave that to the experts. I was able to contact an old friend who has sold more of these than probably anybody recently to see what he can do.

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nickmckinney
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posted May 14, 2008 12:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Audio_by_Goodwill:

quote:
Originally posted by nickmckinney:
Actually in this case since this particular cone has not been produced since the early 1960's the original manufacturer
Who is the original manufacturer? I wouldn't have guessed that the original manufacturer would still be in business.

They were just bought by another company. My 10,000 piece original minimum quote 8 years ago is now much more reasonable (I would be ecstatic to sell 1000 of these much less 10,000)

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CONVERGENCE
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posted May 14, 2008 05:28 PM

I remember the 755 E very well . Wee ordered many of those . A cabinet was designed and many produced for university students.

I even had a pair as near field monitor. There OK
but you don't get the same full image as a 604 8G.

OK very practical , don't take much space and extremely efficient.

I could have taken a pair of the shelves but I was really not interested.

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Audio_by_Goodwill
Senior Hostboard Member

posted May 14, 2008 09:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nickmckinney:
They were just bought by another company.

Ok, so who were they, and who bought them?

[ May 14, 2008 09:40 PM: Message edited by: Audio_by_Goodwill ]

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timp
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posted May 15, 2008 12:24 AM

Hi Nick

Nice to have you up here. I heard you are with the Acoustic Elegance. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1027324

My question is does JBL d215 have any relationship with 755?

Tim

--------------------

Some where over the rainbow-upgrading will end?

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nickmckinney
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posted May 15, 2008 08:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by timp:
Hi Nick
Nice to have you up here. I heard you are with the Acoustic Elegance. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1027324
My question is does JBL d215 have any relationship with 755?
Tim

I don't know Tim, its been awhile since I worked on JBL stuff (about 10 years)

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bfish
Senior Hostboard Member

posted May 15, 2008 10:39 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Audio_by_Goodwill:
Ok, so who were they, and who bought them?

Armed with that name, a couple others, and a modest bankroll, you too could be the (in)famous engineer/designer assembling and selling 755 knockoffs to supplement your insurance salesman/day job income. That's todays' business world for you, it's not what you know, it's who.

[ May 15, 2008 10:42 AM: Message edited by: bfish ]

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nickmckinney
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posted May 15, 2008 11:43 AM

Yeah I worked pretty hard so far on this so don't be offended if I don't give it out across the internet

BTW - the only thing from the original design that we will be using is the cone. Everything else is different. We are looking at 2 different Alnico versions at least, and 3 different ceramic versions as well using the copper sleeve TD style motor structure I designed a few years back.

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bfish
Senior Hostboard Member

posted May 15, 2008 11:51 AM

A bit of trivia;

Back in '73, when the 755 was still just a good ceiling/intercom speaker, it retailed for $39 (Altec's 2nd-cheapest raw frame speaker at the time, compared to $89 for 416s). Adjusted for inflation, that comes to $191.31 today (ignoring that '73 Altec labor was likely union scale, and margins supported a large mfg facility).

GPA manages to whip the inflation calculator to pieces. Using their retail prices for 416s as comparison, a modern 755 would barely bring over $100, brand...spanking...new.

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nickmckinney
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posted May 15, 2008 05:10 PM

The ceramic versions should be around the $200-$250 mark I imagine. The C version from Altec was built pretty cheap IMHO.

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nickmckinney
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posted May 15, 2008 08:52 PM

Just got confirmation that the cone I have has the same engineering number as a 755 pulled from an original AR1. Thanks for the help everybody and once I get this project rolling I will update this thread

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Audio_by_Goodwill
Senior Hostboard Member

posted May 15, 2008 10:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nickmckinney:
Yeah I worked pretty hard so far on this so don't be offended if I don't give it out across the internet

All I asked for was the name of the company, not blueprints and formulas. I'm not trying to get anyones "work".....unless maybe you spent time in library archives researching the original name of the cone vendor, if that kind of info is even kept in a library.

My interest is purely historical and curiosity..... I have no idea what companies make drivers parts. Googling seems to bring up Chinese vendors...bleah!

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bfish
Senior Hostboard Member

posted May 16, 2008 02:00 AM

You could probably count the major domestic cone mfrs in the last 80 yrs on the fingers of both hands. AFAIK, Hawley's the only one that's been here for the duration, and they're responsible for the wet-mold, seamless process (which is actually pretty interesting, google some of the patents I noted above). United's long gone. RD&M and Nu-Way are still around, and have been for many years. If I could tell you who did the 755, I would, but I really don't know (or care).

While they don't advertise it, most speaker manufacturers are technically more assemblers than true mfrs. Cones come from here, coils from there, frames and motors from elsewhere, all either built to spec on a minimum-run contract basis, or occasionally, selected potluck style from existing inventories.

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O G
Senior Hostboard Member

posted May 16, 2008 03:34 PM

These days many parts are "standard"

A spec builder like Eminence just takes your order and picks the necessary parts.

With automated production, often a custom part is as simple as changing a few numbers on the program.

A coil for instance could be a different impedance just by telling the winding machine how many turns of what.

Or aluminum wire substituted for copper in some cases.

The options are way more than they were 25 years ago.

I believe we officially have no ceramic magnet suppliers in the US- I remember reading a while back about the last one closing it's doors.

--------------------

"There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order."

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Audio_by_Goodwill
Senior Hostboard Member

posted May 16, 2008 04:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by O G:
I believe we officially have no ceramic magnet suppliers in the US- I remember reading a while back about the last one closing it's doors.

You may be right..... I assumed these guys made magnets suitable for speakers, maybe even a supplier to GPA, but upon closer inspection it looks like they're doing injection molded magnets.

http://www.tengam.com/html/home.html

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bfish
Senior Hostboard Member

posted May 16, 2008 04:59 PM

US ceramic magnet manufacturers

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O G
Senior Hostboard Member

posted May 16, 2008 05:33 PM

Bfish- check the lead times on custom ceramic orders...just about enough time to get here from China...

BTW the supplier ABG posted listed a a main supplier Magnequench- the dead manufacturer I was referring to.

My info is from speaker industry insiders. I read Voice Coil and the trades. I am not arguing whether ceramic magnets are made here, my info is speaker magnet makers are all gone.

I would be glad to be proven wrong, and would do anything I could to steer business to remaining manufacturers.

Please, somebody prove me wrong...

I might drop a line to Jerry over at Eminence- he SHOULD know if anybody does...

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nickmckinney
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posted May 16, 2008 06:17 PM

There hasn't been a real American ceramic magnet company since 2001 or so. I still have some of those here. Most of the Chinese magnets are pretty good, I never saw a difference compared to the American ones. I know the Chinese also have a cheaper grade thats about 15% less flux for the same size, alot of those go into car subs I imagine.

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