Most people will say that what I say above is not true. Others will say that it is ok because Christianity is wrong. Well, it is true and Christianity is RIGHT. I know this because I see it all around me and because I have faith--a gift from God.

Will you have faith? Will you stand up for your rights as Christians and as Americans to worship and believe in the way that God tells us to? We must stop lying down before those who wish to oppress us, otherwise we will truly be oppressed; eventually the time will come when Christians are once again martyred. I know the Bible says that Christians will suffer for being Christians, and we have and do. I only fear that such suffering will escalate and rapidly.

People fear that environment damage will kill us off or that Christians will "force" their beliefs on others and kill us off. This is not the danger to be wary of, however. Such things mask the real danger...the death of Christians in the world and the deaths of many immortal souls because of this.

Political correctness and not offending anyone is not the goal of our lives on Earth. Our goal is thus: to do God's will. Period. We may have to offend someone in order to do that. That's ok. There is an old saying. "You can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time." It's ok to offend someone if you do so with cause. Do not go around offending people for no reason, but do go around spreading your faith. Don't be afraid that someone will stop liking you. Maybe they will. What people think of you is not the issue. Saving immortal souls is. God will love you, and it's His love that really matters.

I'm not saying you are all letting this happen. You may be spreading your faith like crazy! Good for you! Remember, God supports you. I just thought some people out there might need a little reminder or encouragement, whether they are already spreading their faith or not.

Sorry for the rant, but I am watching our rights as Christians being eroded and I wonder what we can do about it. (Yes, this persecution of Christians really is happening, whether you choose to see or acknowledge it or not.) We can continue to spread our faith, and thus make a big and wonderful difference and improve this world.

Love in Christ,
Tra

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"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."
Romans 10:9-10

http://www.imagestation.com/members/cebula_2000

http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/ubb/forum/f/9536

I am still at a loss as to how oppressing Christians is bad but oppressing non-Christians is good. That doesn't seem right.

I don't think the persecution of Christians is any bigger of a deal than that of other faiths. I'd say Muslims are taking the brunt of it right now.

Christians still have a very strong hold in this country. With the regression in homosexual and reproductive rights, I think Christian beliefs have a stronger hold right now than they have in my lifetime.

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~Sarah
AG collector for over 16 years

My dolls:
Kaya, Felicity, Elizabeth, Josefina, Kirsten, Addy, Samantha, extra!Samantha, Nellie, Kit, Molly, Emily
Lindsey, Kailey, Marisol, Jess
Elizabeth (3), Jia (4), Emily (5), Tia (6 ret.), Jennifer (7), Sarah (8), Clara (9), Jessika (10), Madison (11), Teresa (12), Adriana (13), Charity (15), Bree (16), Dana (17), Adia (18), Hannah (19 ret.), Alexis (20), Victoria (21), Pinky (23), Caroline (24)
Piper (blond Bitty), Bitty (brunette Bitty), Hallie, Isabel

Aside from that, people would never do what you're saying, Kit 1934. I know I associated with plenty of non-Christians when I was a kid. One of my best friends is a non-Christian. When I met her she was a wiccan. We still talked about religion with each other even though it is not allowed at school.

As for the "not allowed to pray at school" I mean, there is not allowed to be reference to God in the classroom. Extracirricular Christian activities (like Chi-Alpha and FCA) are still allowed. So, for that matter, is the GSA (Gay Straight Alliance). And for the record, yes, I think the Christian activities should be allowed while the gay activities should not be. Why? Christianity is right and doesn't and never has hurt anyone. Being gay is wrong and hurts lots of people. (I've already explained how and why in other threads.)

I do think there is a negative attitude becoming more and more present towards Christians. If you don't believe me, then why do I get dirty looks when I go out to eat and say Grace, including making the Sign of the Cross? Why do people on other boards (that I have since left) get so worked up if you have a Bible quote in your siggie or if you talk about being Christian? I've seen it down right to the point of bashing Christians and posting very disrespectful images of Jesus and the Pope. And why, oh why, the **** does everyone get so ruffled up about people saying "Merry Christmas"?!

Honestly, we are getting obsessed with political correctness. Not just about religion, but it plays a big part in things. This is a Christian nation, built on Christian principles, and populated 85% by Christians. So, honestly, I don't think Christians should have to be treated in a manner as if their beliefs are shamefull, because they're not. Whatever happened to majority rule?

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~ Mare ~

My Girls: Felicity, Elizabeth, Kirsten, Addy, Samantha, Nellie, Kit, Molly, Marisol, Chiyo (#4), Morgaine (#25), Matthew & Madison (Blonde Bitty Twins)

I suppose I see where you are coming from here. Don't worry, I do respect your faith. I won't criticize it. I do, however, think you're being foolish. Christians have more rights than any other religion. Let's have a look.

We are no longer allowed to pray in school, it is politically incorrect to witness, and truth is no longer seen as truth, but rather as a truth that someone...considered the winner of the battles of history...has decided to be called truth.

For one thing, you are allowed to pray in school. The thing is just that you don't HAVE to anymore. As for the truth thing, you sound smart. Come on. Surely you have to admit that it is not concrete truth. I'm not saying it isn't; all I mean is that
it's foolish to think it's definitely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, truth.

On we go.

e must stop lying down before those who wish to oppress us, otherwise we will truly be oppressed; eventually the time will come when Christians are once again martyred.

Oh please. Something like 90% of Americans are Christians. Don't tell me you feel oppressed. You are allowed to stand on a soap box in the middle of downtown and start preaching, at least where I live. Don't tell me that sounds like oppression.

For the rest, I agree wholeheartedly that you can't worry about offending people too much. It's just that no-one considers it offensive to pray at school.

You say gay people are being oppressed? Why? They still have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex. They just choose not to.

Yes. Yes they do. And why do they choose not to? BECAUSE THEY'RE GAY. It is oppression for them not to be allowed to marry the same sex. What you're saying sounds like, "Oh, I'm not allowed to have this opinion, but I am allowed to have that one, so I'm not being oppressed."

With all the people saying that Christianity is wrong and fighting for laws against Christian values, I'd say liberalism and such has a bigger hold on the country than ever before. It's scary, actually. I mean, the further we turn from God, the more likely our country will fall and the more likely we will die (in both a physical and spiritual way.)

No-one says it's wrong. Where the **** are you getting your information here? And why would we die physically if we stopped being Christians? Do you have any idea how much less bigotry there would be if there were no religion, period?

I am totally against hate crimes, but when the GSA encourages people to accept the sin of homosexuality, then I see a problem.

There's a large difference between ENCOURAGING and
ALLOWING.

Lying, like all sins, is wrong. Homosexuality and lying, unfortunately, occur often. Yes. But we don't have to (nor should we) accept sin just because it occurs too often.

So squelching christianity is bad, but squelching homosexuality is good? Has it ever occurred to you that other people might have different morals than you? That to some people it's not a sin?

I find it funny that those who profess to be the most "tolerant" religion-wise are always bashing Christians for being "intolerant." Who's the intolerant one, then?

For once I agree. I do think that many Christians are intolerant, but Christianity isn't, by any means. What did Jesus teach? Tolerance. It's just as bad to be intolerant of Christianity.

Secondly, yes I believe that Jesus and God and what God has said in the Bible is beyond the shadow of a doubt, concrete, irrefutable truth.

I do feel oppressed, yes. When I am looked down upon because of my faith, I feel oppressed. When I am considered foolish or less intelligent or less tolerant than others because of my faith and my convictions, I feel oppressed. I am no stupid. I know that others believe differently (and some even believe the polar opposite) than what I believe. I realize that to everyone, morals seem to be different. I realize that everyone's going to have a differing point of view and opinion on things. I also realize that this does not change the truth. It's like trying to make solid rock less solid simply because we don't all believe it is the same rock, or it is solid. That doesn't make it any less solid, nor do others' opinions on God make Him any less real and His Way any less right.

Many people find it offensive that some even believe in God or try to show others the right Way.

They choose to be gay.

When you say no one says it's wrong, you mean Christianity, right? Well, many, in fact almost everyone who is not Christian sees CHristianity as wrong. When you say "Christianity may be right" you are not saying it is right, just that it is possible, and to me, that is the same thing as saying it is wrong. Jesus said in Luke 11:23 "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters."
Besides that, there are many who say that it is wrong to believe in one absolute truth...which Christians do.

There is not bigotry because of religion. Bigotry is a result of hatred and stupidity...not Christianity. Christianity says to love everyone, but to hate the sin. Not tolerating sin is not bigotry. I'm sure, though, that if there were no religions, there would still be a whole lot of bigotry. It would just be over different things.

It is wrong to encourage or allow a sin.

I know that to some people, homosexuality and other things are not sins. That does not make them any less of a sin in the eyes of God. And His opinion is what really matters.

Thank you for stating your opinion. We need a little new blood on the board, and I'm glad you're here. You have stated your opinion in a civil and respectful manner and I appreciate that.

It may seem like hatred to not tolerate everything, but think of this: if a parent allowed a child to do whatever they wanted, even though it was bad for them, would that be love or hatred?

Wow.

Okay.

*holds in laughter*

I do feel oppressed, yes. When I am looked down upon because of my faith, I feel oppressed. When I am considered foolish or less intelligent or less tolerant than others because of my faith and my convictions, I feel oppressed.

Those may be true sometimes, but only by anti-christians. Again, some 90% of Americans are Christians. Do you expect me to believe that 10% of the population "looks down on you" and you feel oppressed because of it?

I am no stupid.

I'm sorry, if I didn't know that was a typo I'd have to say something really sarcastic.

I know that others believe differently (and some even believe the polar opposite) than what I believe. I realize that to everyone, morals seem to be different. I realize that everyone's going to have a differing point of view and opinion on things. I also realize that this does not change the truth. It's like trying to make solid rock less solid simply because we don't all believe it is the same rock, or it is solid. That doesn't make it any less solid, nor do others' opinions on God make Him any less real and His Way any less right.

Naturally, you're right. But, since many people don't see the rock to be so solid, there's no reason to try to make them to.

Many people find it offensive that some even believe in God or try to show others the right Way.

So? It's not like they run the government.

They choose to be gay.

Did you know the scientists have implanted a gene into fruit flies that makes them gay? Do you think they are choosing to be gay?

When you say no one says it's wrong, you mean Christianity, right? Well, many, in fact almost everyone who is not Christian sees CHristianity as wrong.

Ummm...

Yeah. That's why they're not christian. Am I banging my head against a wall here?

When you say "Christianity may be right" you are not saying it is right, just that it is possible, and to me, that is the same thing as saying it is wrong. Jesus said in Luke 11:23 "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters."
Besides that, there are many who say that it is wrong to believe in one absolute truth...which Christians do.

Once again, you're right. And once again, those people aren't exactly oppressing you.

There is not bigotry because of religion. Bigotry is a result of hatred and stupidity...not Christianity. Christianity says to love everyone, but to hate the sin. Not tolerating sin is not bigotry. I'm sure, though, that if there were no religions, there would still be a whole lot of bigotry. It would just be over different things.

I would say there's bigotry because of Religion. Especially because of, you know, holy wars and unimportant stuff like that. Also, you say not tolerating sin is not bigotry. That depends on your definition of sin, doesn't it?

It is wrong to encourage or allow a sin.

Once again, non-christians don't have to live by your rules. It's not wrong to let people do what they want.

I know that to some people, homosexuality and other things are not sins. That does not make them any less of a sin in the eyes of God. And His opinion is what really matters.

Not really. I'd rather do what I want now and go to **** than believe in something I don't and go to heaven.

It may seem like hatred to not tolerate everything, but think of this: if a parent allowed a child to do whatever they wanted, even though it was bad for them, would that be love or hatred?

Right, but at least we know both that there is a parent and what exactly the parent's word is.

I'll close with this: Christianity does not cause hate. It causes love. Galatians 5:22 says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

Are you sure 90% of Americans are Christians? Do 90% of Americans say they're Christians? If they do, does that make them Christian?
Whether you are looked down upon by 90 percent of the population or 10 percent of the population, it is wrong for them to look down upon you and any discrimination is wrong, no matter to what degree it is.

Since many people don't see the rock as solid, there's no reason to try to make them? Well... if you saw someone running at a brick wall repeatedly and bloodying their head wouldn't you try to stop him or her? Which is more cruel, to let them kill themselves or to try and convince them that the wall really is solid?

Sometimes it is wrong to let people do whatever they want. Especially if that causes harm to themselves or to others. And all sin, regardless of who sees it as a sin or how "small" a sin it is, harms people.

Being homosexual is a choice.

The Crusades, Inquisition, Salem witch trials, etc. were not done in love. But I don't consider the people who did that as loving. I don't consider them true Christians.

Christians are sinners too. Even true Christians will not be perfect. But you can't hold that against God, who is perfect and good.

I know there is no arguing with you because you just don't care about anyone's opinions, but I just wanted to let you know your argument was weak there.

Um.

Okay.

How relevant.

Are you sure 90% of Americans are Christians? Do 90% of Americans say they're Christians? If they do, does that make them Christian?

Yeah. It means they at least kind of practice their faith and at least kind of defend it. Or at least not attack it.

Whether you are looked down upon by 90 percent of the population or 10 percent of the population, it is wrong for them to look down upon you and any discrimination is wrong, no matter to what degree it is.

I agree, I suppose. But that's not my point. If ten percent of the population looks down on you, too bad, so sad, just ignore them. Ten percent cannot overthrow a stronger ninety percent.

Since many people don't see the rock as solid, there's no reason to try to make them?

Yep.

Well... if you saw someone running at a brick wall repeatedly and bloodying their head wouldn't you try to stop him or her? Which is more cruel, to let them kill themselves or to try and convince them that the wall really is solid?

What if they're running at a brick wall that's reeeaaaally far away, and no-one can see it, and this person doesn't even think it exists, and there's no evidence for it, and you think it's there because of blind faith... it's more cruel to clothesline him.

Sometimes it is wrong to let people do whatever they want. Especially if that causes harm to themselves or to others. And all sin, regardless of who sees it as a sin or how "small" a sin it is, harms people.

That's not my point. My point is that what's a sin to you isn't to them, and if they have no reason to believe they will be judged for it, let them go ahead.

Being homosexual is a choice.

LOOK. YOU SAID THE EXACT SAME THING IN THE LAST POST. One sentence. Zero backup. Plenty of dogma. And, as I said, GENES IMPLANTED INTO FRUIT FLIES THAT MAKES THEM GAY. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. Why does typing that down with no support make me believe you? Besides, the fruit flies beg to differ.

The Crusades, Inquisition, Salem witch trials, etc. were not done in love. But I don't consider the people who did that as loving. I don't consider them true Christians.

It doesn't matter whether they're true or not. They were still christians.

Christians are sinners too. Even true Christians will not be perfect. But you can't hold that against God, who is perfect and good.

I couldn't find what that was supposed to be relevant to.

I know there's a parent...God.

No, you don't. You believe there's a parent. I don't believe in God, but I"m not one to say whether or not he exists. I would consider there to be a 0% chance that there's a god... but at least I'm smart enough to know that that's my opinion, not written-in-stone truth.

And I know what His Word is...The Bible.
I have faith...absolute, sure, undoubting, indesribably joyous, wonderful, miraculous faith. I know what I know.

As for the fruit flies...they had to ALTER the genes of the fruit flies to make them gay. It is NOT natural. It is a CHOICE.
If the Bible said something opposite of science, I would believe the Bible over science. So even if there were some sort of test that coudl "prove" that there was a genetic component for homosexuality, I woulnd't believe it. Not that there is any proof at all.

Let's say the man runnign at a brick wall is blind. He can't see the brick wall. But it is still there and going to hurt him when he runs into it. Wouldn't you try to stop him.

I do KNOW what I know. Even if it is just faith, you make it sound like faith is a bad thing, like it is somehow less than "proof" or anything like that. You believe in atoms, right? Protons, neutrons, electrons? Quarks? Well...no one has seen those either, they just think they're there because of the evidence that is shown by the actions of said atomic particles. It's the same with God. I may not see Him directly, but I see the evidence of Him in EVERYTHING GOOD.