Missed em by "That Much"

[RonSSS]

I was watching some 416Z with the 16" frames on the Bay.
No one was bidding, I assume a lot of folks don't know these.
$250 starting bid and they were mint.
I bid $325 in the last seconds. I wasn't even close.

I haven't bid on anything forever. So I gather there were a bunch of automatic bids.

Sigh.
I'd like to try some Alnico drivers in my M19's. Mine are GPA re-coned C's.
Despite the claims, GPA cones are not the same as the originals.

Since it seems to be dead as wood around here, I've attached a photo of my system.
If you look close you can see the Altec 8182 subs hiding behind the 19's.

Ron

[mah]

Commiserations, Ron.

Current prices mean 'striking it lucky' seems to apply to those of us used to 'better' buying times. I came across this recent listing, already sold, during an unrelated Google search:

http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0021-...-6048h-speaker ($US216)

A general auction stock clearance site. Who would have looked there? Similarly, this recent find($375 or offer) after a long listing: http://offerup.com/item/detail/15171459/

Google can be the way to find isolated listings for specific models.

[Elitopus1]

Ron
Thats a nice setup you have there! I wonder how the 416z would sound in your M19 versus the factory 416b or 416c? I always heard the M19 was designed around the 416b.

How do the GPA cones sound different to you? I always thought they had more bass than an original cone Altec woofer. That could just be because the surround goop has thickened/puddled on some of the original woofers and screwed with the specs. I have noticed that a good cleaning of the surround and spreading the goop back out will help that.

Anyways, I have also noticed the GPA cones sound a bit different. Glad its not just me

[RonSSS]

mah, interesting searches! I don't hunt like crazy for this stuff. I honestly have enough. Well, not quite!
I rarely even look at FleaBay.

Elitopus1, thanks. My IPhone just doesn't do the room justice. It always looks washed out.
It's in the basement, very cozy and very dead and quiet. I built it in 1991 when the state removed my driving privileges. :-)

The 19 was indeed designed around the 416-8B. The 8C has different TS parameters.
I had real 8B's but sold them and GPA cone kits to Matt Vandyke here on the board.

Anyway, I removed those bad cones and they are simply different than what GPA sells now.
Not saying the GPA stuff is bad, it isn't, it's excellent. It's just not an exact duplicate.

Hence the desire to hear real alnico units in them.
That 416Z is more like the 416-8A but the 16" frame would drop right in.

[magnarc]

mah I saw that 604 on Grays but the rust and water damage to it made me steer real clear!

[mah]

Magnarc, It is a poor example but searching beyond the major listing sites can be worthwhile for bargains - more for specific items than general browsing of Ebay, etc. It looks as though you do this.

[bowtie427ss]

The 19 was indeed designed around the 416-8B. The 8C has different TS parameters.

As does the 416A/Z. Except for the static physical parameters, all of the specs differ at least somewhat.

I don't have impedance graphs at hand. But, since the 416B and 416C differ a half an ohm at DC, it's likely their entire curves differ which means swapping 416C in place of a 416B in a factory system, should require changing some values of XO components to maintain the same knee point, ideally.

That 416Z is more like the 416-8A but the 16" frame would drop right in.

FWIW, 416-8A comes in both frames, and should not be confused with older 416A which is essentially a 416Z with a green can over the motor and a nice foilcal. 416Z was essentially the cost trimmed 416A.

[Elitopus1]

FWIW, 416-8A comes in both frames, and should not be confused with older 416A which is essentially a 416Z with a green can over the motor and a nice foilcal. 416Z was essentially the cost trimmed 416A.

This is what I always forget. The 416A versus the 416-8A.

So 416Z=416A minus the rear cover. 416-8A and 416-8Z are later and different. Right?

[bowtie427ss]

This is what I always forget. The 416A versus the 416-8A.

So 416Z=416A minus the rear cover. 416-8A and 416-8Z are later and different. Right?

Don't overlook the 8 vs 16 ohm impedance convention.

416A and 416Z = 16 ohm.

the -8A/8Z versions are pushing a decade later, where the differences end i am not sure. Obviously the impedance changed, and most likely the cone and perhaps even suspension revised. Sometimes changes were subtle and not heavily documented. So, we have to rely on the handful of fellas who have had them apart first hand as well as our own collective of data to try and met out all the specifics. Those models also seem to have been made concurrently with the changeover to the large 16" frame as examples of both are readily found.





30767 is the part number for 416-8Z. You can verify this as well as the fact that it came in both size frames in the '75 reference guide.

[Elitopus1]

Ok, all of that makes sense. Besides learning from you guys I have quite a few saved Altec searches on ebay. I'm always curious to see what came in the different Altec systems.

Were there any 8 ohm green frame woofers? It seems like no. I know I have seen 8 ohm 15" white frame woofers. I see from your pics there are 8 ohm 15" black frame woofers as well. By the time the 16" frame came out it seems like it was 50/50 8/16 ohm