Union Bears

[Unchained]

So many folks on here ragging their coaching staff out,but at some point folks have to remember that this is a first-year unit,and gelling doesn't have a timetable. Truth be told there's not that plethora of talent there that the folks from Appy and BSG think is there (everybody OUTSIDE of BSG/APPY will agree with me). I see the same level of talent there as the rest of the league and region for that matter.Union was hyped up so much that folks started believing the hype before/without hitting the gridiron. In every situation there's always going to be convienant scapegoats,and I am sure that Travis Turner understands that,but to all you armchair coaches out there that think you can do better? By all means go to school,get your degree and apply when it opens after you all run him off. Trust me we folk at Central have learned much this season. Jason Mullins was dead and buried after the Castlewood debacle,and headhunters were running rampant. Funny what four wins later can do (and I have to man up and admit I was very critical of not Mullins but Hicks). Sometimes ESPECIALLY with a first-year unit patience is needed (while in short supply at UHS right now). It is not like Union is losing to pitiful teams either guys (even the Central bunch folks were so down on have really stepped it up). There are no easy nights in the LPD,and toss in folks like Richlands and it's not going to be a bed of roses. Just because you combine two storied programs which used to be great but have had decline in talent over last decade,is no guarantee for instant success (Central being polar opposite to that statement obviously-again new era,new day). Folks from PV/Appy have gotten spoiled because of the success that used to be years ago. Be patient and let the staff get it together. Rome was not built in a day. If you can't be patient,after you run them off then do it yourself and spare the rest of us the incessant bitching and whining. Just some thoughts from someone outside of that program.

[lpd_observer]

So many folks on here ragging their coaching staff out,but at some point folks have to remember that this is a first-year unit,and gelling doesn't have a timetable. Truth be told there's not that plethora of talent there that the folks from Appy and BSG think is there (everybody OUTSIDE of BSG/APPY will agree with me). I see the same level of talent there as the rest of the league and region for that matter.Union was hyped up so much that folks started believing the hype before/without hitting the gridiron. In every situation there's always going to be convienant scapegoats,and I am sure that Travis Turner understands that,but to all you armchair coaches out there that think you can do better? By all means go to school,get your degree and apply when it opens after you all run him off. Trust me we folk at Central have learned much this season. Jason Mullins was dead and buried after the Castlewood debacle,and headhunters were running rampant. Funny what four wins later can do (and I have to man up and admit I was very critical of not Mullins but Hicks). Sometimes ESPECIALLY with a first-year unit patience is needed (while in short supply at UHS right now). It is not like Union is losing to pitiful teams either guys (even the Central bunch folks were so down on have really stepped it up). There are no easy nights in the LPD,and toss in folks like Richlands and it's not going to be a bed of roses. Just because you combine two storied programs which used to be great but have had decline in talent over last decade,is no guarantee for instant success (Central being polar opposite to that statement obviously-again new era,new day). Folks from PV/Appy have gotten spoiled because of the success that used to be years ago. Be patient and let the staff get it together. Rome was not built in a day. If you can't be patient,after you run them off then do it yourself and spare the rest of us the incessant bitching and whining. Just some thoughts from someone outside of that program.

Unchained, this is an internal matter. If you dont like the discourse, then don't come on here. You only want travis to stay because he's an obviously sorry coach and you think that you all can beat him regularly (in fact you probably can).

There is absolutely no merit to the argument that we have to be patient for success. If he's a good coach, which he's not, and the players are there, which they are, then positives should be easily apparent. There are none. He's set our program back 3 years. He needs to coach elsewhere. It's not as if he has to recruit like a college coach. You have to be patient to recruit in college. You don't have to recruit in a system like this. The guys are right there. You can either win with them or you cant. Travis is an embarassment as a coach. Losing to a terrible program like central is something that can't be tolerated. BSG should not have to. Travis must go.

I'll ask you a question. For all that wise Baseball accomplished, imagine that your team this year with state final four ambitions missed the playoffs inexplicably and because of obviously terrible coaching. You all would want his head, and you'd probably be right to do so. For us in Union country, Travis was a bad hire, and our suspicions were proven correct. To tolerate anymore of his awful coaching tendencies is something that we can't live with. Go lecture somebody else.

[Unchained]

Unchained, this is an internal matter. If you dont like the discourse, then don't come on here. You only want travis to stay because he's an obviously sorry coach and you think that you all can beat him regularly (in fact you probably can).

There is absolutely no merit to the argument that we have to be patient for success. If he's a good coach, which he's not, and the players are there, which they are, then positives should be easily apparent. There are none. He's set our program back 3 years. He needs to coach elsewhere. It's not as if he has to recruit like a college coach. You have to be patient to recruit in college. You don't have to recruit in a system like this. The guys are right there. You can either win with them or you cant. Travis is an embarassment as a coach. Losing to a terrible program like central is something that can't be tolerated. BSG should not have to. Travis must go.

I'll ask you a question. For all that wise Baseball accomplished, imagine that your team this year with state final four ambitions missed the playoffs inexplicably and because of obviously terrible coaching. You all would want his head, and you'd probably be right to do so. For us in Union country, Travis was a bad hire, and our suspicions were proven correct. To tolerate anymore of his awful coaching tendencies is something that we can't live with. It's frustruating for him to bring absolute and utter shame to a once proud football tradition. Go lecture somebody else.

It is NOT an internal matter when folks like you get on this public forum and bash your coaches. Then it becomes external,and is a HUGE detriment to the young men that don the Union uniforms. As for coming on here? lol I have been on here since you were shatting mustard,have always said what I want,when I want and that isn't changing. Fans like you are a discredit to that school. If you don't like this thread,how about YOU exiting it stage right Again please check yourself before you wreck yourself as reality is on Line 1 and I hear it saying over the speakerphone that the talent IS NOT there-not a shade more than anybody else. To think otherwise is delusional. This coming from the same PV fans who wanted to run off the man who MADE their program in Phil's last year. PV folks are about to get the bad rep that some Poundfolk got over the years for running folks off. The absolute utter shame you speak of should be instead embarrassing the kids and those two communities by stirring conflict in their very FIRST year. I'll also say this since you put it out there: I fully expect the Warriors to make a nice baseball run this year,but am intelligent enough to know that it isn't always coaches who are to blame if it doesn't happen,and I'm smart enough to know if it fails because of lack of coaching,that in my profession I do something other than make the decision to axe him . You can whine until the proverbial cows come home,but the sad reality is all you are doing is embarrassing yourself,as this is NOT your decision to make

[R13]

Such a dumbass post lpd. Again, this is what is making Union look bad, it's people like this. They aren't that good, the sooner you get that through your head, the better you'll be. I'm sure they have some talent, but it's not near what's claimed and that doesn't mean that players won't develop and be a lot better. I expected this kind of ignorance at Central with the Pound bunch coming in and it's pales in comparison to the whining by the Union fans. He hasn't brought shame on anyone, the only embarrassment has been the fans, they have made this team look worse than any coach ever could. You keep talking about a "football tradition" and there is none, this team is a clean slate like the other two combined ones, because these particular two schools were great decades ago(be serious, PV and Appy were a shell of what they used to be) doesn't mean it's some magical formula and this team was destined for greatness...it wasn't and you might as well suck it the hell up instead of blaming every damn one.

[Unchained]

Such a dumbass post lpd. Again, this is what is making Union look bad, it's people like this. They aren't that good, the sooner you get that through your head, the better you'll be. I'm sure they have some talent, but it's not near what's claimed and that doesn't mean that players won't develop and be a lot better. I expected this kind of ignorance at Central with the Pound bunch coming in and it's pales in comparison to the whining by the Union fans. He hasn't brought shame on anyone, the only embarrassment has been the fans, they have made this team look worse than any coach ever could. You keep talking about a "football tradition" and there is none, this team is a clean slate like the other two combined ones, because these particular two schools were great decades ago(be serious, PV and Appy were a shell of what they used to be) doesn't mean it's some magical formula and this team was destined for greatness...it wasn't and you might as well suck it the hell up instead of blaming every damn one.

The folks from Pound and Wise are mixing very well together (so much better than folks thought they would).

[Biggin]

I am so fucking sick of hearing that clean slate bullshit. Its retarded and not true. Travis Turner-Appalachia HS, Roger Austin the same. Tim Thomas coached at PV, Jim Huff has been at PV forever, Morris was at PV. THEY BROUGHT IN NO NEW OUTSIDE COACHES. These kids didnt begin at Union High School. Tyler Barker played at APPALACHIA High School; Nathan Baker played at POWELL VALLEY High School. So that argument is stupid and false.

and ID, thats not true. Ive been extremely critical of this years staff but I never once said Phil should go or that Phil had lost his mojo. This is not fair weather PV or AHS fans getting on here and bashing the coaches, its people like me who have followed the program for 20 years, have been around or involved in the program for years. These kids know that no one on here is downing them or wishing them to be unsuccessful. We WANT these kids to be successful, FOR THEM! Its not for me, I dont get pissed when UHS loses because I feel bad, I get pissed because those kids go out there, bust their asses (at an incredible rate this year. from what I hear, Travis has worked them to absolute death and not allowed them time to recover and get their legs back for Friday. Ever wonder why Union comes out like gangbusters for the first half then dies in the second? That seems to explain it.) and leave it all on the line. I want these kids to get the same amount out of representing their school that I and numerous others got.

And Im tired of the BS that Union isnt very good. Are they state title contenders? Nope. But didnt PV win 5 games last year? Explain to me how a team can add in new players, good players at that, play a schedule that is very comparable (CW was better last year, GC was better last year, Lebanon, etc..) and is less successful?

Travis deserves time, I am not advocating firing him right now. What I am advocating is a little common sense. If Union had been playing terribly and losing games, none of this would be an issue, Nobody would be questioning the staff if Union was playing shitty. But when COACHING ERRORS play into losses, its only natural to question the process. Why has UHS had all kinds of game management issues? PV didnt have them last year. Explain to me how a kicker who was almost perfect on PATs last year cant hit one for shit this year? Its a lack of repetition and thats on the COACHES.

Im not trying to hide either. I personally know Jim Huff, Tim Thomas, Morris, Pat McKinney. There is nothing I say on here that I would not say to any of these men in person. Everybody knows me, I dont try to hide it, never have. If anyone wants to discuss this matter IRL I would be more than happy to oblige.

[Unchained]

I am so fucking sick of hearing that clean slate bullshit. Its retarded and not true. Travis Turner-Appalachia HS, Roger Austin the same. Tim Thomas coached at PV, Jim Huff has been at PV forever, Morris was at PV. THEY BROUGHT IN NO NEW OUTSIDE COACHES. These kids didnt begin at Union High School. Tyler Barker played at APPALACHIA High School; Nathan Baker played at POWELL VALLEY High School. So that argument is stupid and false.

and ID, thats not true. Ive been extremely critical of this years staff but I never once said Phil should go or that Phil had lost his mojo. This is not fair weather PV or AHS fans getting on here and bashing the coaches, its people like me who have followed the program for 20 years, have been around or involved in the program for years. These kids know that no one on here is downing them or wishing them to be unsuccessful. We WANT these kids to be successful, FOR THEM! Its not for me, I dont get pissed when UHS loses because I feel bad, I get pissed because those kids go out there, bust their asses (at an incredible rate this year. from what I hear, Travis has worked them to absolute death and not allowed them time to recover and get their legs back for Friday. Ever wonder why Union comes out like gangbusters for the first half then dies in the second? That seems to explain it.) and leave it all on the line. I want these kids to get the same amount out of representing their school that I and numerous others got.

And Im tired of the BS that Union isnt very good. Are they state title contenders? Nope. But didnt PV win 5 games last year? Explain to me how a team can add in new players, good players at that, play a schedule that is very comparable (CW was better last year, GC was better last year, Lebanon, etc..) and is less successful?

Travis deserves time, I am not advocating firing him right now. What I am advocating is a little common sense. If Union had been playing terribly and losing games, none of this would be an issue, Nobody would be questioning the staff if Union was playing shitty. But when COACHING ERRORS play into losses, its only natural to question the process. Why has UHS had all kinds of game management issues? PV didnt have them last year. Explain to me how a kicker who was almost perfect on PATs last year cant hit one for shit this year? Its a lack of repetition and thats on the COACHES.

Im not trying to hide either. I personally know Jim Huff, Tim Thomas, Morris, Pat McKinney. There is nothing I say on here that I would not say to any of these men in person. Everybody knows me, I dont try to hide it, never have. If anyone wants to discuss this matter IRL I would be more than happy to oblige.

Biggin you are right about you not calling for Phil's head,but you were certainly the minority man. We have something in common though: Just as tired that you are from hearing about clean slates,I am as tired of hearing the whining and folks being delusional thinking Union has state title talent. Again the plan has already been laid out as far as what to do after Travis is ran out of town goes It's hard to discount the new era new age thing though when in year one it has already reared it's head. Remember the posts on here about 2 garbage programs coming together would make for a Godwaful team? Where'd that go? Wise beats Appy to death but perhaps loses to PV without those skill players from Pound. Pound gets beat by PV without that big,strong line from Wise. Appy wouldn't be remotely near Wise without kids from PV,so proof positive of what a brand new era and a new team can do

[R13]

It is a clean slate and there's no other way around it, only to PV/Appy folks that think decade old titles somehow carry over is it relevant. Union has never won anything, not a single title, they aren't some storied program...they have as many titles as Central and Eastside, the quicker Union fans get past this entitlement attitude that because two schools that back in the 80's/90's won a shitton of titles somehow translates to instant success, the better off they'll be. The argument is just as dumb even when they were still PV and Appy, just because they won a lot of titles before, doesn't mean jack shit when that new season comes around - this is esp. true in HS because teams change every year and every 4 years you have a team that is COMPLETELY different then it was. Why Union fans thought that adding a mediocre team with a less than mediocre team was a recipe for success in its first year is beyond me. There wasn't this huge pool of talent individually with the schools, adding them together isn't going to change that. We keep hearing about all of this talent, but where is it? Yeah, lets name the handful of players we know are good and could start for any team, but how is that any different from ANY other team? Every school has those few really good/solid players that could start/get a lot of playing time elsewhere, that's not special and that's no different from any team you'll find.

Who should have been picked over Turner? A list and then explain how those guys would have had a better record than they do now, until then I don't want to hear a word about Turner being so awful. I don't think they would have had a difference record-wise(maybe a game) if Phil had been coaching them this year, I know I'll get blasted for it, but it's the truth...Union wouldn't be any better and that's a hard pill to swallow for some. This whole "tradition" thing might be worth a damn if they had actually been good recently, but their glory days ended years ago. It's not like Turner took over two winning teams and screwed it up, he took over two teams that had become irrelevant in the district for years and been dominated by Burton and Clintwood, it still is and you wanna play him for it?

When people from the outside look at Union, they aren't judging Turner and talking about him making the team look bad...they're looking at the fans that think they're better than everyone and/or entitled to beat teams because one of the former schools did it a lot. Doesn't mean shit, never will, even if this was still PV/Appy they're not entitled to beat anyone because what they did a decade ago means nothing this season. Union just isn't going to be liked and it's not because they're good, but it's because they're not and think they are.

[Biggin]

It is a clean slate and there's no other way around it, only to PV/Appy folks that think decade old titles somehow carry over is it relevant. Union has never won anything, not a single title, they aren't some storied program...they have as many titles as Central and Eastside, the quicker Union fans get past this entitlement attitude that because two schools that back in the 80's/90's won a shitton of titles somehow translates to instant success, the better off they'll be. The argument is just as dumb even when they were still PV and Appy, just because they won a lot of titles before, doesn't mean jack shit when that new season comes around - this is esp. true in HS because teams change every year and every 4 years you have a team that is COMPLETELY different then it was. Why Union fans thought that adding a mediocre team with a less than mediocre team was a recipe for success in its first year is beyond me. There wasn't this huge pool of talent individually with the schools, adding them together isn't going to change that. We keep hearing about all of this talent, but where is it? Yeah, lets name the handful of players we know are good and could start for any team, but how is that any different from ANY other team? Every school has those few really good/solid players that could start/get a lot of playing time elsewhere, that's not special and that's no different from any team you'll find.

Who should have been picked over Turner? A list and then explain how those guys would have had a better record than they do now, until then I don't want to hear a word about Turner being so awful. I don't think they would have had a difference record-wise(maybe a game) if Phil had been coaching them this year, I know I'll get blasted for it, but it's the truth...Union wouldn't be any better and that's a hard pill to swallow for some. This whole "tradition" thing might be worth a damn if they had actually been good recently, but their glory days ended years ago. It's not like Turner took over two winning teams and screwed it up, he took over two teams that had become irrelevant in the district for years and been dominated by Burton and Clintwood, it still is and you wanna play him for it?

When people from the outside look at Union, they aren't judging Turner and talking about him making the team look bad...they're looking at the fans that think they're better than everyone and/or entitled to beat teams because one of the former schools did it a lot. Doesn't mean shit, never will, even if this was still PV/Appy they're not entitled to beat anyone because what they did a decade ago means nothing this season. Union just isn't going to be liked and it's not because they're good, but it's because they're not and think they are.

You clearly have no idea WTF you are talking about. When I read you believe this team would be the same with Phil Robbins, it shows you are truly clueless. No need to read the rest, its clear.

How is it a clean slate when every person involved in the program was affiliated with PVHS or AHS? In four years, those kids have a clean slate. This year, no. Thats just stupid to say. We know you love the consolidation, yes. I supported it as well. But that does not mean we have to pretend everything is shiny and new, because its just not.

Mark Palmer, IIRC, expressed interest in the job. A guy who has years of head coaching experience and had some success at St. Paul.

[Biggin]

Biggin you are right about you not calling for Phil's head,but you were certainly the minority man. We have something in common though: Just as tired that you are from hearing about clean slates,I am as tired of hearing the whining and folks being delusional thinking Union has state title talent. Again the plan has already been laid out as far as what to do after Travis is ran out of town goes It's hard to discount the new era new age thing though when in year one it has already reared it's head. Remember the posts on here about 2 garbage programs coming together would make for a Godwaful team? Where'd that go? Wise beats Appy to death but perhaps loses to PV without those skill players from Pound. Pound gets beat by PV without that big,strong line from Wise. Appy wouldn't be remotely near Wise without kids from PV,so proof positive of what a brand new era and a new team can do

I dont disagree with any of that. But the point is, that these kids grew up around AHS/PVHS football. They know whats expected and what these two towns are known for. Its a new name, but its the same kids. Just because its UHS and not PVHS does not mean they dont expect to be competitive in football. Its not a clean slate when every person involved with the program came from either PVHS or AHS. That just does not happen. Central is expected to continue to turn out exceptional baseball and girls basketball teams. Would you not be upset if WC baseball was terrible? Just because the schools are new does not mean the feeder programs,the JV programs,etc.. just die.

Ive never once said anything about state title talent. UHS is not as talented as CW, JIB, GC, etc.. But they arent that much more talented than UHS.