People don't come here any more because they failed.

[Chance1234]

some wise words

[miker]

[somedeadguy]

I agree with Emjen a lot. If there was someone out there who would do my story, and include some of the visual and audio aspects that I imagine I would just be a writer.

I didn't mean to imply that you are old Skinhead, I just thought you sounded like my grampa. He's tired and has pretty much given up any of the dreams he once had.

I think that the biggest thing that keeps filmmakers from "making it" is naysayers, and it bummed me out to come here and read that. Congrats on finishing the best project ever. Go drink a beer and smile about what you've done, it's more than a lot of us have. I understand that film school gives you a leg up, but it doesn't mean it's the only way.

I call it a hobby until I get paid, but I plan on making my feature one day, whether or not it's self funded. Like I said, if my "vision" is as good as I think it is, it's both a quality film and marketable. However it's possible that I'm wrong and I'm willing to accept that.

I have a family too, and a mortgage, and certainly can't afford a budget of over $50 a month. But hopefully after 1,000 $50 projects I will be talented enough to convince a movie exec to fund me. Or I will be confident enough to borrow against the house. Either way, we'll see what happens.

After your recent accomplishment what do you have to be so negative about?

I do, however, understand how stressful and depleting a project can be when it's your money that pays for broken stuff, food, etc.

I'm not trying to make a million bucks, I'm just trying to offer people a healthy alternative to Uwe Bol crap.

[coffeefilms]

Interesting thread, nice to see some realism around though perhaps a little too much negativity.

I shot my first short on SVHS with my best mate Dave in 1996 aged 20, never spent a single day in film school but read a lot of books, paid a lot of attention to videos, and listened hard to every piece of advice I ever got offered (which wasn't a lot).

Over the years I've probably invested about ?70,000 into my career; almost all of it on credit and about ?45,000 of which I still owe (I'm pretty good at lying to bank managers and have had no solid income at all whilst accruing all of this), but then, at least 6 years of that was wasted writing feature films I had no money, contacts or ability to make and shorts that were pretty pointless experiments, so it needn't have cost so much or taken so long.

From 2003 I targeted more on what I was doing, made some really good shorts which got attention at festivals and shot a good documentary for ?3000 on my credit card, today I have 3 docs in advanced development with major broadcasters, a media lawyer co producer and an internationally respected distributor pre-selling my projects; any one of which would pay off my remaining debts. Admittedly it could all go pear shaped at the last minute but it's pretty unlikely now; as a company we marketed our projects hard and everyone believes we can deliver.

I think what more people need to realise is that it does take time and money and that every second is incredibly precious. Kidding yourself that writing a feature script will get you overnight recognised by Warner Brothers and given millions of pounds is the biggest single thing screwing up most people's attempts at getting anywhere, everyone thinks they're the next cinema genius and that everything they do is a masterpiece even when everyone else can see they're not.

Being half assed is another problem, as someone else pointed out if you really want to be a professional director/producer you do need to forget about the vast majority of your social life, lose contact with a lot of friends and family, and hope your girlfriend/boyfriend is very understanding or doing something similar; as a professional I might be earning money but I'm going to be away in foreign countries filming for something like 75% of the year and certainly haven't been the greatest boyfriend for the last 4 years, which is fine if you're 20 without a care in the world but something else when you're 30 with a family and also well overdue on National Insurance, pensions, mortgages and all the other shit you have to deal with as you get older.

I think a lot of people need to ask themselves if they really need the professional result, or would you be as happy doing a "normal" job and shooting projects in their spare time? It's a thought I've played with a lot the last couple of years and the only thing that stopped me going that way to date were constantly improving results with each new project, if things don't get a little better with each new project you need to give up on getting that big break.

Finally it's also important to remember that you don't have to be "discovered" while you're 20 something; doing well at film school can put you straight into directing music videos and commercials but that's a tiny percentage, the vast majority of professionals making work we'd all want to make are well into their 40s and come from very diverse backgrounds, I think basic raw talent counts for more than any level of teaching, you either have it or you don't and you have to be big enough to recognise that, film school is a device that gets the really outrageous talent where it's going a little bit quicker but can also be detrimental to those with a talent that works in a different way to the norm, Brit film courses especially seem to be more focused on TV broadcast and limit a lot of creativity and ideas.

To summarise, my opinion is that you can do it, but we all need to recognise our own levels of talent and be realistic about where we can get to, and it may sound like whining but we do live in a country with an incredibly shit level of support for independent film; not long ago I won an award which was given to about 15 European filmmakers each year all tabbed as going on to greater things. As the only Brit I was there with a miniDV short made for ?500 at weekends, even my local newspaper wasn't interested in the story. By comparison, the Swedish winner had a 35mm short made for ?50,000 (paid for by his film school) and made page 2 of the national press in Sweden.

If you've got it don't give up, but be real about where you're going.

Steve Piper
www.coffeefilms.com
www.myspace.com/coffeefilms
www.youtube.com/coffeefilms

[Generic Skinhead]

Good posts, some interesting views. I can see theres a lot of passion at least.

I just feel the need to further clarify my position in case people get the wrong idea.

At no point have I ever said Film School is essential.

At no point have I said you cant "make it" unless you go.

All I've said is having access to like minded people and quality gear early on is a big help.

I do not see myself as being negative. I try to be a realistic optimist...there doesn't seem much point in being anything else. Being optimistic and being deluded are different things. I encounter a lot more delusion than optimism and thats from people already in the industry.

I still thinks the list of people who no longer come here due to losing interest/ not getting anywhere would be massive. Anyone remember Foolmaster? Brenda "I am a filmmaker" Smith?

[jb_617]

I think most people have 2 barriers to a career in the entertainment industry.

1/ They want too much too fast and their attitude is "my way is the only way/damn the rules"

2/ They have no talent.

For the small minority of people who do not fall into 1 or 2 (or both) there is special category 3:

3/ They are just plain nuts.


-----------------------

I like cheese.

[miker]

I would add:

4/ Homophobic

5/ Anti-semite

[untamed_aggression]

Well, this was a depressing read.

[miker]

Here?s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently.
They?re not fond of rules. And they
have no respect for the status quo.
You can praise them, disagree with
them, quote them, disbelieve
them, glorify or vilify them.
About the only thing you can?t do is
ignore them. Because they change things.
They invent. They imagine. They heal.
They explore. They create. They inspire.
They push the human race forward.
Maybe they have to be crazy.
While some see them as the crazy ones, we see genius.
Because the people who are crazy enough to think they
can change the world, are the ones who do.

[Brooks Productions]

Steve jobs?

Very nice post. I dont post here a lot but i know things have changed for myself since joining. I was a complete and utter amateur film maker when i found this forum. And well i still think i am, except now i can call myself a professional (to some extent) who's knows little about the vast art of film making.

I currently work as a special effect artist for a small production company, but i have had a small bit of experience on music videos for MTV base and channel U as camera man/DOP. I was even lucky enough to be DOP on a music video that was nominated for a best in british award last year (although it didn't win).

Ive had no formal training, just what ive learnt from reading and going out there and shooting a ton of really bad films. But i want to attend film school and i want to direct.

Even though ive achieve more then some (im only 19) and a lot less then most i still dont feel im where i need to be for my career on track.

But im on busy producing a no budget short for march which i hope will make some difference how ever small. which is more reason guys should help out...so check out my topic over at:

http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ult...c&f=410&t=6703

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 09, 2007 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Brooks Productions ]</font>