What to do with Iraq...

[onelove]

I was against the war from the start. However, we are there now.

What should be done?

I don't think immmediate pull out is the answer. If we leave now we destabalize the region. And we invite the slaughter of the Sunni in Iraq. It also serves to destabalize Turkey. ETC ETC ETC

So what to do?

I think we need to put more troops on the ground for a limited time. A Lot More troops most likely in the 100,000 person level.. I know it will be difficult to find them. But if we are to leave any type of infrastructure we need to have stability and security there.

SO I look at this as a 3-4 year process. 6months to find and outfit the troops and get them on the ground. A 2 year window for the Iraqis to get it together. We lean on everyone involved in the negotiations to give women more rights and to create a more secular government. We help create a more loose federation of states within a state. Three areas to be exact. We have talks involving Iraq and all the nations with a stake in the areas stability. Even those nations we aren't wild about. At the end of that 2 years we start the draw down no matter what the field looks like. To be completely done within 4 years from 1.1.07

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 13, 2006 05:17 PM: Message edited by: onelove ]</font>

[Stormyskies]

I am torn about this, really. Ever since my oldest, dearst friend lost her son in Iraq this past August, I am torn by feeling like we MUST stay until we complete what we started because otherwise, it does a disservice to all those that have given their lives for this cause. On the other hand, I have heard first hand how dirty the enemy is playing, and yet our guys are supposed to play by the rules. I honestly feel like we need to give back what we are receiving from them and play their way. If we allowed our guys to do what it takes to win this war, we could win it...but like I've said before, you don't win a war by being 'nice'. The enemy isn't nice. I'm almost for saying, "Let them wallow in their filthy hatred and go on killing themselves if that's what they want and bring our guys home!"

But then...I think about the ones who have sacrificed and it wouldn't be right to cut and run. So yes, we do need to change our tactics. We need to allow them to fight back and match the enemy fight per fight. Take the gloves off, stop pussy-footing around and get the job done! Our guys can do it, but we need to allow them the freedom to do it.

[feelinggreat]

I don't think this administration should be the source of the answer to this problem. I don't trust them for a second (why? They have a record of lying to us and they are personally gaining from their adventure - and we need to investigate what's happening with the permanent military cities they're building, Halliburton's profit making machine at the expense of our troops and what companies with ties to this administration are benefiting from future deals concerning those oil fields.)

Let the UN or even a coalition come up with some answers.

As far as dishonoring those who have died in service to our country - anyone who would dare do that should be shunned. Period.

[onelove]

I don't disagree about this administration. However, I have a lot of mixed feelings about this. We did break it. I don't think we can just start pulling out. I would like to avoid genocide if at all possible. I think if we just pulled out the Shia would slaughter the Sunni wholesale.

I think the UN serves a purpose, but are they really going to be willing to put troops into Iraq? Are they going to arm them? There were UN troops in Rwanda who were powerless. Who will step up and supply the bodies?

I hated the thought of this war, but we are there now. Being right about it being a bad idea doesn't get us out of there. It is now a pragmatic issue. How do we do the most good for the most people.

Do most people think we should just start pulling out? Do you think we should turf it to the UN? What should the time frame be? Do we try to build more infrastructure there? What do people think we need to DO at this point?

[feelinggreat]

Sorry if that wasn't clear. I definitely feel that this administration broke it. As a matter of fact, the supposedly bipartisan group that is tasked with finding a new way out can't be totally trusted either -- James Baker is no neutral party. The UN or another coalition may not be perfect but it's better than anyone Bush/Cheney picks at this point.

There is also the huge question of how much of the destruction happening there right now is caused by our military presence? Perhaps some other country would be able to aid the Iraqis and not bring so much baggage with them that they're doing more harm than good.

[onelove]

I felt more that way prior to the elections. Starting January the Democrats will have real power. I think they need to have a plan. (I think they should have had one all along.)

Finding another country or coalition to go into Iraq...I have to be honest if they are willing to go there at this point we may not want them there. While I am not proud of our motives the rest of the worlds motives are not always pure as the driven snow.

I also think more boots need to be on the ground. Maybe the 100,000 more troops could come from the UN or other countries. We could leave our troops there for the next two years. Then we could withdraw and leave the other troops to phase out.

I just feel like there has never been enough bodies to create stability. With a moment to think about something beyond survivals the Iraqis maybe able to pull a real government together. I think they deserve a shot at it.

The policy as is won't work, but with some thought about a real plan for winning the peace maybe some good can come of all the deaths on both sides.

[feelinggreat]

Very little coverage has been given to democrats having alternative plans. This article might interest you:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...o_pull_troops/

[onelove]

Thanks. I hadn't read any of that before. It is food for thought.

[funkycamper]

It just sucks because what is going on in Iraq today is exactly what Mid-East experts predicted would happen.

<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ November 15, 2006 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Maureen in Italy ]</font></font>[/QB]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly! I can't tell you how many times a Bush apologist has said to me "well, nobody could have predicted the anarchy/civil war/religious feuds/etc." This always stuns me and I tell them that all of these things were the things I was saying, along with thousands of my friends, as we particpated in anti-Iraq War marches PRIOR to the invasion. None of this is any surprise to anybody who was really paying attention.

[Maureen in Italy]

Did you guys happen to read about that mass-kidnapping yesterday in Iraq? Where supposedly the Iraqi police (Security forces?) stood by and did nothing? Scary if that's their idea of taking over.

When the USA pulled out of Vietnam weren't the predictions also really dire for the aftermath?

We know that there are huge religious divides in Iraq and I just can't see how more soldiers will ever be able to take that hate away. (Not to mention the amount of outside terrorists that will no doubt create other confusion)

There are still peacekeepers in Kosovo and Serbia and they arrived there back in 97 or 98. (And there was no terrorism there, so that's never been something that had to be dealt with) Plus the divides there are not even close to the level of the divides between the Shites and Sunnis.

It just sucks because what is going on in Iraq today is exactly what Mid-East experts predicted would happen.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 15, 2006 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Maureen in Italy ]</font>