WTF

[Skinz]

Evil, Here is what I am a bit concerned about and I think I have heard the same from a few others also. "We are not a careing of our own members enough".

What I have seen I can understand why some people might feel this way. I mean if we can't trust our own clan members then who can you trust?

We all do small favors for each other and I have even made and crafted free stuff for people inside and out side of the clan to make our name better for Primez. I think doing good deeds will pay off in the long run. Earlier today I made a Dwarvin chain Mail to a guy with subs and recipie and he was just amazed I would do it for him and didn't ask for anything. He gave me some donations but since it was just a average gear I thought the impression we leave with that guy was more important then charging 10k or what ever it was worth.

How having said this, I knwo that Unikle is out and his GF is playing him and was told not to lend anything out to anyone. Now I can understand if it is a very coveted item like Samaurai recipie or Yaksa recipie or what not... But when a clan member asks for a single click off some stupid mid grade crap and gets turned down it tell me that there is absolutely no respect and trust between members. Now I can hear the argument. well it is not my account... blah blah blah... but your his GF in RL and can contact him no? or at least have enough collaborative trust and respect for each other that you share in mutual decisions and make some basic judgement calls. I mean it wasn't even anything that was of high value. Now my friend is still waiting for his item which I have created all the subs for and spamming to see if he can get it borrowed from a Strager or buy the recipie...

Yes I am disappointed and this sort of lack of trust and respect makes me now understand why some people are feeling this way.

I don't want to hear "business is business..." I don't play this game like a business nor run it as such. I play to have fun and to help people and make new in game friends and have a good time experiencing the game.

I will gladly do favors for anyone that helps me and even if they don't I would help out just to see the bright smiles on peoples faces when they get thier new item. I will charge what "I" feel is appropriate and not what anyone tells me. If the guy is a jerk I will charge him or her a ton and if its a cool person I will charge less or free if it is something I can afford to do at the time.

Just my 2 cents in my short time here, and I hope that our clan leadershiip sets better examples for the rest or else we will continue to be no better then any mercenaries out there charging for serivces with no real friends... and that is NOT what I am about.

[EvilAkurei]

I know what you mean Skinz... It isnt as much of a consern to me because i am usually off soloing doing my own thing. I agree that lately there is much less clan chat going on. No reason to quit i'll start a new trend as of now everytime someone talks in clan chat i will say something...maybe we can get some real conversations going because it is obviously important to know and trust your clan mates!! I think your dead on with the lack of guild trust I try to trust everyone untill they give me a reason not to....I think the more we talk and know eachother the better off we will be..if you are unhappy with the guild then do something to change it dont just jump ship... As for giving freebies well this is were we sort of dissagree...personally i never give freebies I will help someone in need unless they have given me a reason not to. I've saved countless lives from pks, groups of agro mobs, etc. But giving freebies isnt the best way to make a good name for ourselves in my opinion i think it shows a bit of weakness(no offense intended to anyone)just the way i see things...anyway the main thing that is bothering me is i dont think there is anything that is so bad that people should be leaving like they are i dont think anyone should be flaming anyone without backing it up and i think the ones that do walk away will regret it in the long run..Every great clan has ups and downs!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 23, 2004 02:52 PM: Message edited by: EvilAkurei ]</font>

[Aionsama]

my 2 cents.

I have played many RPGs, and most recently come from the world of AC2. Our guild was a feared and respected pvp clan. We pvped people whenever we could, that is to say whenever the game presented a situation in which it could occur.

I hope primez gets to that level and ignores all of this other 'we have to be nice to people all of the time'. I want to slap those people and let them know 'hello ! this is a pvp game, its designed to make you grit your teeth and flip out when you get ganked, but guess what, you get to go and do it to them !!'.

Skinz - I totally agree with what you're saying. I am new to the crafting realm, but here is my perspective. If I find a nice recipe, I can sell it for 100k and be done with it. Or I can give it to a crafter in the guild who then in turn uses it to craft good for everyone and make the clan stronger. I prefer the latter.

Anyways, I have a couple of nice recipes that you are welcome to have.

Peace

Aion

[Inc0gnito]

Well, i wanna add my two cents on this trust and power but if anything is wrong, since i haven't been in primez that long, go ahead and tell me.

I am assigned in the subguild but since we are one guild both main and sub concern me. Each time somethign happens i msg mg immediately to find out details and whatnot. I don't understand why all these ppl are leaving myself but i am sure they have their reasons. Subguild, from what i remember, is always full of chat and you be surprised how a simple convo may keep some1 from going or staying. Main guild, form my understandings and ppl complaints, is lacking unity. To many ppl trying to do their thing is neglecting others that want to try other stuff with a guildy. Like i gone out of my way to help ppl in main guild gather stuff off mobs that honestly, would tear my ass up but regardless the issue i helped out. These lil small deeds help out in th elong run with the whole issue of power and trust.

Now, this next part is not meant in offense to any dorf in the guild but any dorf in any guild, imo, hold all the power in the guild. Reason i say this is cuz dorfs can either make a guild strong or make it weak. Now i know all the dorfs in our guild made the sacrifice and added their hrs to playing their class but don't you think that the prices you go by for guildies is absurd. Yesterday, i was reading main guild chat and something disturbed me. This was during the whole skinz and unikle issue with the recipe. Now i know this wasn't unikle speaking but when u tell a guildy that its all business then wtf is the point of you being in a guild? Like i said, i was disturbed when i heard this and i may be blowing this off to porportions but every1 in this guild plays their role in it and defends the guild to the best they can but just becuase we don't play a dorf don't mean we should struggle with the whole gear issue. Aren't bounty hunters recruited into guilds to help guildies get supplies or aren't warsmiths recreuited to craft gear for their guildmates.

Now i also understand that this game is all money money but whats the point of charging these prices when no1 ends up winning but the dorfs. This is where trust and power comes in. I am sure no1 in this guild thats been around for awhile has giving you any reason not to be trusted. I myself am working on gaining trust in this guild an di only rant what i did cuz i see things in past present and future tense. I like to work hard but i also like to be compensated. I know it takes time to get some of these supplies but is it not worth spending the time gearing gearing up the guild to fortifying its defense and offense rather then just a single person?

I dunno i could just be rambling but its just something i had to get off my chest. Like i said, i dunno how you guys run this guild or what not since i was in it for a bit so i only speak from the experience i had while i was in it till i can get back in it. Trust and power, balance both out and everything smoothes out.

[Skinz]

Thanks for your offer Aion, so far no one has given or donated any recipies to me and I had to buy it all on my own. I did get a few low lvl ones form my friends out side of clan but that is about it.

So now when people ask me why I don't have much or what not... it is because I spend all my money on things like recipies. If we as a guild would pull together and help each other then this would not be an issue. I would make no cost or very low cost for guild if I could just get some help but every time I make something and sell I have to turn around and spend it on new recipies or what not.

Scavengers out there can only be successful when partied with trusted guild members when trying to sweep a good recipie or drops. So I do feel they should share with teh clan and its members or by contributing through low cost to members. Scavengers can not do it all on thier own and need help from other guild members, so it doesn;t make sense to me why they would be holding on to recipies and such when there are guild dwarfs that can use it to make money for the guild and members or worse war smiths having to buy the same recipies that is held by the scavenger dwarf because they are not willing to give it up to the guild WS's. Now does that make sense?

We all work together to make guild stronger not as an individual.

Enough Said...

[Dragonx]

Hey skinz, your very new to our clan, so trust is gained slowly and earned slowly.
You weren't here when unikle got hsi samaurai longsword, the first one made on lionna and it was back when he was starting out a player scammed him and earned hsi trust and then logged off with it.

So this clan is very paranoid of trusting people and like i said your very new ot us and trust takes time.


Also i've decided to let subclan of primez go and let them go their own way since i no longer am interested in the politics game or have time to run the subclan and deal with leveling groups and others issues.

I'm turning main Primez in a Mercenary, merchant and PVP only clan with mightygiant.Only people level 50 + can join main Primez from now on.
We'll do this process slowly and i'lll ask around Forsaken and other clans for you guys who want to find a more Clan oriented home.

Main primez will only be those people who are really for PVP and War.

[Lanfeer]

I personally am new to the guild. I am also super greedy, yet wen logical things come arround like givin a recipe that i could sell for 50k to a crafter....50k isn't much. Wat the others said is true, dorfs make or break a good guild because they control the market. To me, a crafter doesn't need to charge guildies 100k to make a helm if all he has to do is put it together. If left in game for 1 nite a crafter can spend 400k and buy enough to make 1 helm to sell to 1.2 mil the next nite, i don't really see crafters are hurting for money that they would need to charge. That is super greedy. But everyone should realize that the primez motto or watever was of a capilitolist guild, strong get strong and don't help the weak. We all knew this wen we signed up, so deal with it or do wat i do and just find a nice dorf in another clan to craft stuff for u so u don't have to pay that 100k haha

[Lanfeer]

Nevermind...i'm not 50 so i guess i'm not even in the guild anymore.

[EvilAkurei]

Ok i've been trolling the forums and even our own forum and everyone is jumping ship or talking shit!!...WTF...I think MG has done a great job thus far with the clan and he has done absolutely nothing to make you think otherwise..so he wants to step up and kill or grief the trash talking pussies that call names and make threats to us in the saftey of the forums...I respect having a leader that has the balls to call on any guild that wants to disrespect us..I think MG knows exactly what he is doing and for all you guys jumping ship i'm very dissapointed...As for the alliances who cares.. I seriously believe This overhaul of the main clan is exactly what Primez needs to keep things interesting and if anything to show that we have a backbone and wont allow these forum flamers to continue with thier slander and threats. give me some input maybe i'm the idiot here but i joined this clan because they are elite and will be a powerful clan for the long term...and nothing has changed in my eyes other than the fact that we are voicing our opinions more than before! So stick around and be glad you were invited to join such a hardcore clan....

[Aionsama]

A few things to clarify. I am lvl 48 now, and MG made it clear that I could stay in main primez if I wanted to. I dont think he is dimissing folks just cuz they are sub 50 - that is the requirement for new recruits from here on. Its not that I disagree with the pvp ideology, because trust me, I dig pvp - its the funnest part of the game.

First of all, I left Primez primarily because all of my buds left too. Secondly, I want to go on record as saying I dont agree with the policy of charging for crafts, as 'business'. But its no big deal, because as Lanfeer points out, I knew exactly what I was getting into when I joined - a capitalist guild where members work deals out indepenently and inline with market prices.

Do I think its fair that I have to pay 500k just to have a top C grade weapon crafted ? no

Did I net profit over 4 mil adena off of helms that I paid 100k each to get crafted ? yes

Bottom line is there has to be a balance so that both parties (crafter and seller/user) benefit. That being said, I think charging an acquaintance / friend / guildie 500k to craft something is just way too much. That is not balance, that is crazy.

Anyways....Priya, Unikle, MG, Vaa - you guys were always cool to me, holler at me anytime in game.

All you other fools, you know who are.... you're my buds and Ill see you on the other side!

PS - other side won't be Foresaken.


Peace,

Aion