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Thread: ROCK CONCERTS

  1. #1
    Senior Hostboard Member LICORNE's Avatar
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    When you have 20,000 screaming fans at 120 db
    and your JBL VERTEC can't go higher than 120 db. What does the FOH ENGINEER do?He compensates by lowering the band and the back ups and leaving the solo singer practically alone at 120DB.With ALTEC LANSING
    SPEAKERS YOU WOULD NOT NEED TO DO THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE DESIGNED PRIMARILY FOR VOCALS.SO ADDING THE REST OF THE BAND AT SAME LEVEL WOULD COME OVER AND ABOVE THE SCREAMING FANS. THE PROMOTERS WOULD MAKE MORE MONEY,AND EVRY ONE WOULD BE SATISFIED.
    PRODUCERS AND FANS.
    INVEST YOUR MONEY WISELY BUY ALTEC

  2. #2
    Inactive Member dBu211's Avatar
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    Hi, just share with you guys, there was an exhibition bout pro audio in Singapore few months back. D&B (Q series), Meyer Sound (Milo), L-Accoustics (dV-DOSC), EV (X-Line VC) ect... All is Line Array, demoing with their very own demo disc, pumping 110dB-115dB 15 mins per demo, IMHO, for mid-range (Vocal) EV sound the best!!

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    Senior Hostboard Member LICORNE's Avatar
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    Using Altec 817 cabs with Mantaray M94 horns is
    a good and powerfull system.

    It's quite huge in terms of cabs compared to line arrays but can be done.

    ..............

    <font color="#FFFFFF" size="1">[ October 26, 2007 08:35 PM: Message edited by: CONVERGENCE ]</font>

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    Senior Hostboard Member LICORNE's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Designing a line array speaker system with new Altec Drivers .

    <font color="#FFFFFF" size="1">[ October 26, 2007 08:37 PM: Message edited by: CONVERGENCE ]</font>

  5. #5
    Senior Hostboard Member joyspring's Avatar
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    Huh?

    Buy Altec? They're no longer available! At least in large-scale, integrated systems...

    Remember, they shut down operations in Anaheim, CA and the engineers went along their ways as well, to JBL, Cetec-Gauss, EV, Clair Bros., Community, etc.?

    In fact, one young engineer Mark Ureda - a co-developer of the Altec Mantaray - went on to do a lot of consulting for Just Big and Loud.

    Additionally, he co-authored a white paper presented to the Audio Engineering Society in 2000 with another reknown former Altec consultant/alum John Eargle and David Scheirman on optimising line array performance through predictive analysis.

    The commercial result of their impressive research? The JBL VerTec line array.

    And contrary to your dismissive statement re: the maximum sound pressure from the VerTec, please note that each enclosure is rated anywhere between 136 - 145 dB peak SPL, full power input at 1 metre. Sorry, even subtracting 6 dB to obtain an AES continuous power spec, a 210 loaded with two 515-8GHPs can't even come close...

    Two morals of this story:

    <ul>[*]If Altec were still a viable, cutting-edge professional audio leader today with all the resources that LTV denied the Anaheim Altec, the engineers would be doing all the same materials science, computer optimisation and analysis, digital audio / digital signal processing that all modern professional audio companies now use and users of this forum so irrationally seem to detest.[*]Altec is NOT the eternal paragon of sonic excellence; while excellent in their time and still relatively good today, our beloved vintage Altec has been far surpassed by modern drivers and systems.[/list]

    Do you really think that if Altec were still viable today, that their engineers would be willing to work for a company to still produces multicells, 210/211 LF enclosures, 515 drivers? That would be quite an embarrassment really...

    For related perspective, have a look at the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society articles for the past ten years and count how many originate from `boutique' audio companies (vintage/tube/phonograph/specialty cable/loudspeakers).

    Didn't take long now, did it?

    BobR

  6. #6
    Inactive Member scott fitlin's Avatar
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    You would need a lot, and I mean alot, of 210,s and multi cells to reach the output of most line array systems on the market today! The size and weight of the traditional Altec systems of yesteryear would be overwhelming.

    If Altec were in buisiness today, they would have to, in order to be competitive and hold a share of the market, have systems based upon todays designs and engineering, and yes, they would undoubtedly have digital signal processing to go with their systems! Truthfully speaking, no sound proffesional I know would be willing to work with the behemoth cabinets of back then, becuase todays stuff is so much lighter, and has such high power handling, and high output! Most sound companies are not willing to invest in what was, they want what is now, as well as whats coming next!

    I have heard JBL Vertec! While I cant say I love the sound, the output is tremndous!

    About digital! Well, I still have a taste for analog, but, and I mean this, digital has made vast improvements in the last couple of years, and is getting quite good! Yes, ten years ago, digital audio sounded like cheap trash! Not anymore! Although digital signal processing may not be 100% fully perfected yet, it is getting there! With the advent of processors like the Lake Contour, digital audio is approaching a point to which it sounds good, really good! With the top digital processors available now, its amazing what you can achieve, if you take the time to set it up correctly! I listened to a well known professional CD player a few weeks ago, and right after, they hooked up the digital output of the CD player to an outboard Apogee Rosetta DAC. The difference in sound quality was absolutely thrilling! The hash, and synthetic sound quality typically associted with low to middle of the road CD players was gone! The Apogee converters sounded smooth, and quite dynamic, and real! Notes hung in that elusive 3D image, each note distinctly in its own space and location, this was the coveted territory of analog! And up until recently, digital didnt quite get there. But things are changing rapidly! These Apogee converters assured me of that!

    I am coming to understand that many things of the past that were known for their " sound " actually do have colorations and minute distortion components that while sound pleasing, are exactly what they are, colorations and distortions!

    For home listening you can use what you like, whatever it may be! But, for professional use, they must use whats currently in manufacture, is backed up by companies having parts and service, be able to withstand the rigors of touring, high SPL, and power, as well as be able to offer their clients the latest technology! This is often a major selling point!

    As good as Altec sounds, and sounded, they goofed back in the 80,s by not keeping up with the times! THX? Altec never had a THX system available for theatres, and theatres were a mainstay buisiness for a company like Altec! They left the door open to other companies coming in and dominating what were then new avenues of technology, manufacturing, and sales!

    With that said, I still love the Altec sound, and vintage analog electronics! But if I were moving a major system around from place to place, 210,s and 99 racks of DC-300,s would be displaced by lighter weight Line Arrays, and 2 racks of Crown I-Tec amps!

  7. #7
    Senior Hostboard Member LICORNE's Avatar
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    You said :Altec never had a THX system available for theatres,not quite.

    1989: The A10 Voice Of The Theater speaker system is THX? approved.

    THe 'show co' system is the best system a Texas firm ever produced. The Altec GPA woofers and drivers could replace the components inside their cabinets.

    This system is twice as powerful as VERTEC.But it can only be rented.It comes complete with technicians
    to operate and set up.

    ................

    <font color="#FFFFFF" size="1">[ October 26, 2007 08:41 PM: Message edited by: CONVERGENCE ]</font>

  8. #8
    Inactive Member scott fitlin's Avatar
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    OK, I was wrong about THX, I was under the impression Altec had never had a THX system! My mistake!

    ShowCo may have a system thasts twice as powerful as the vertec, nothing is impossible! I happen to like TAD woofers! Better than JBL IMHO! Im sure they could build a system using Iconic drivers, if they wanted to! But you make it seem like they could just swap the TAD,s for Iconic using the cabinets they designed and tuned for the TAD,s! I would think they would have to retune, or make boxes optimized for the drivers they are using!

    Theres a reason ShowCo chose to use TAD! Certainly they can afford most anything they want, and TAD does not come cheap!

    If Iconic became a prominent player in the pro field, with ground breaking new development, and major marketing, and financial backing, theres no reason they couldnt become a major entity, butI still think they would have to manufacture and market modern systems utilizing current state of the art technology!

    But I dont think the market wants monster sized, extreme weight cabinets!

  9. #9
    Senior Hostboard Member joyspring's Avatar
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    Scotty:

    If Iconic became a prominent player in the pro field, with ground breaking new development, and major marketing, and financial backing, theres no reason they couldnt become a major entity, butI still think they would have to manufacture and market modern systems utilizing current state of the art technology!
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">(disclaimer - what follows is not intended to offend but is simply an objective observation)

    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but by my reckoning, Iconic Manufacturing Company appears to be a low-quantity run shop specialising in catering to retro-hi-fi and supporting existing Altec installations rather than high-volume, high-tech, high-performance professional audio.

    If Iconic were to break into the latter, they need engineers; real engineers.

    I do not see degreed mechanical and electrical engineers, acousticians, mathematicians or physicists currently on Iconic's roster.

    While not at all important for the SET amp boutique cottage shop, they are mandatory for any serious pro audio company.

    And marketing nostalgia products that were originally developed well over twenty years ago is not going to attract worthy candidates either...

    BobR

    PS - I reckon that our formerly-caps-locked friend is actually a forum troll but one never be too certain...

  10. #10
    Inactive Member scott fitlin's Avatar
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    While i agree with most of what you say Bob, to my ears, the Lake Contour DSP processor sounds quite a bit better than the BSS FDS-388 of the 1990,s! In fact the BSS FDS 366T sounds good to me as well.

    Both processors, which I like, more bits, and higher samplig rates, and to my ears do sound better than digital components of ten years ago!

    Something I get to do on a regular basis, is play CD,s from the 90,s that sounded not so good through the CD player I was using in 1995, sound alot better through my current CD player! This tells me the hardware has improved!

    But you are right about recordings having gotten better! Some of todays CD,s sound really good! So recording, mixing, and mastering for digital have also improved dramatically!

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