Lowering the crossover point.
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    Lowering the crossover point.

    Lowering the crossover point.
    Recently I removed
    Last edited by cradeldorf; November 15th, 2012 at 02:59 AM.

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    Lowering the crossover point.


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    Re: Lowering the crossover point.

    The horn does not properly load the fram down that low, so power handling goes way down, and pattern control issues arise. Bad idea IMHO. If you can get a set of the original 604 horns you might do it.
    Your neighbors called. They like your music.

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    Re: Lowering the crossover point.

    I always thought 604 bass speaker was a 416, not a 515, so if that were true, then they'll go up to 1,600 pretty easily. But I could be wrong and Old Guy is right if the horn won't load the high diaphragm atbthe bottom, you'll screw it up.

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    Re: Lowering the crossover point.

    Quote Originally Posted by cradeldorf View Post

    ...........I don't understand why these speakers seem all over the place? one day they sound good the next day they don't. And it's been that way since the day I got them.

    :/

    hahhahhah lol

    This means that you are missing something ( response-wise ) in your setup. When they sound good, it means that the number being played was not that dependant on the missing portion of the spectrum, and the other way around for the bad sounding days. Assuming that everything about the drivers & the enclosure are standard, it has to do with the xover only. I had suffered similarly for nearly 2 yrs. with my A7-500, and it was finally over for me recently. Ofcourse it ended up with me having kind of a refresher-course in xover designing.

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    Re: Lowering the crossover point.

    Cradeldrof, what other gear are you running? Personally, I could never listen to my Altec speakers without a graphic equalizer and while alternatly listening to CD's, Youtube videos, and Movie DVD's, am constantly adjusting the EQ not only for each different format, but each different CD, or video. They are all recorded differently and each has to be individually adjusted to taste. It is a time consume task, but is a necessary requirement for listening nirvana. Altec, more than any other speaker brings out all of the flaws in recording engineering.

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    Re: Lowering the crossover point.

    I don't really know because I don't have one, but I thought that unless you have true 5.1 with a center channel speaker, you will never be able to balance the voices vs soundtrack vs special effects from a video source. I would worry more about how the system plays audio music rather than video. When are they going to split soundtrack voices from the rest of the audio and give us control over how loud those damn special affects and music are on video?
    Last edited by VolvoHeretic; August 12th, 2012 at 12:20 PM.

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    Re: Lowering the crossover point.

    Quote Originally Posted by cradeldorf View Post

    I'm kinda confused as to what OG is trying to say about the horn not loading the phram? I would thing the metal Phase plug with the hair width circular slots in it would do the phram loading? I am running the loading caps right now.

    Yes, OG is absolutely right.

    For such a small horn, trying to xover it too low may damage the phram, as the air-mass (volume of air inside the horn) will be too less to prevent it from being over-excursed. On the other hand, the phase-plug as the name suggests, only prevents any phase cancellation from occuring within the prescribed bandwidth, which otherwise can happen as the phram is not a flat surface, and hence the path length from the periphery & the center of it to a point in front of it in space will be unequal. This difference will cause frequency cancellations at different spots throughout the bandwidth. The loading-caps when 'ON' will also prevent the phrams to some extent from being over-excursed, but it usually is the happiest when the pressure/loading on both the sides are similar (linear excursion), which will not happen here for this horn if the xover was too low, even though the caps were on.

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    Re: Lowering the crossover point.

    Quote Originally Posted by cradeldorf View Post
    I totally agree with your statement, Let me describe the other night: I had the LF set to kick off at 1590HZ (1.5mh inductor) and the HF to kick in at 1577 (6.3 uf cap). I was watching a Barney Miller dvd. the dialog needed to be turned up a bit to hear it but when the laughter would play it was way louder than the dialog. Then I switched the HF crossover down to 993HZ (10.0uf cap) then the dialog and the laughter was all the same volume, much nicer to listen to. It was like the woofer was doing part of the voice and the horn was doing the other, and the horn was much more efficient at doing it.
    Will you pls post a diagram of your present xover/hf-attenuator set up ?
    And the DC resistance of the 604 LF/HF sections (it should be ofcourse around 12.5 ohms) ?

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    Re: Lowering the crossover point.

    Quote Originally Posted by cradeldorf View Post
    I don't have a good dcr meter at the moment but will buy one and post the measurements.
    Is this a drawing error or for real ?
    In the HF rail, the cap should be towards the amp-end & the attenuator should be towards the driver. But here it seems to have been reversed.
    This can be very bad for the attenuator and the amp to some extent.
    Last edited by aditya; August 13th, 2012 at 03:42 AM.

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    Re: Lowering the crossover point.


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    Lowering the crossover point.
    Quote Originally Posted by cradeldorf View Post
    Don't take this as a negative attitude but are you saying that the phram can push enough air through those tiny slots to actually create a back pressure against the air that's in the horn tube which has a much larger volume than the slots? It just sounds as if physics would say that it would take a lot of air movement through the slots before you could build up pressure against whats in the tube. Or maybe I just don't understand enough yet. 604B's had a 1000hz crossover point? other than the horn mouth being slightly different, the throat I believe was the same size.
    Altec 604 Duplex Speakers and related
    There is no need to worry about negative attitude etc. We all are beyond that.

    Coming to the subject.....yes the air thru the phase-plug slots is enough to find resistance in the horn pipe. It is also to do with frequency. Actually these drivers are very much like a rugged-ized microphone. Forget about this, think of a 515 in a 825/828, and think of the cone movement...and how little it is !
    Yes you are right by saying that you have not yet got the feel of this subject.

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