New Heathkit AS101 owner - First post.

[Earl K]

I can't seem to find a 6uF Dayton. They have a 6.2. OK?

Yep, that'll be fine . I figure ( based on my own experience ) that any value from 6 to 7uF will work well .



PS ; Congrats on the ordering of the UMIK-1 ( hopefully the shipping from HK doesn't take too long ) .

[Altec Best]

I can't seem to find a 6uF Dayton. They have a 6.2. OK?

You can always parallel two caps to reach a correct value as well Alan..

https://www.solen.ca/pub/index.php?c...2&s2=3&s3=&s4=

BTW I still think you would be better off changing out the HF driver.. I have an 802G you can play with as you don't live too far from me.. Then you can do a comparison and go from there.

[alancohen]

Ooo-Ooo. Most generous AB. I'm in Hunterdon County - moving from Glen Gardner to Lebanon Twsp. You couldn't be that far that I wouldn't make the trip for a chance to try them out before spending the ching. It's NJ after all.

I think the best thing to do, since Earl somehow managed to get me started on this whole measurement project, is to wait until I get the microphone and get settled into the new place. I'm hopefully closing next Wednesday and will be moving throughout the holidays...nice huh? This way I can not only hear them, but spend a weekend trying all different combinations, taking measurements of what I'm hearing and get a good comparision complete with empirical data.

It would be nice to measure them 1) stock, 2)with Earl's mid-limiter circuit, 3) with the 802s with and w/o the limiter circuit (if necessary) and then 4) install the active XO w/bi-amps an compare the 806As with and without limiter to the 802s. That should tell me most of what I want to know.

[Earl K]

Ooo-Ooo. Most generous AB. I'm in Hunterdon County - moving from Glen Gardner to Lebanon Twsp. You couldn't be that far that I wouldn't make the trip for a chance to try them out before spending the ching. It's NJ after all.

I think the best thing to do, since Earl somehow managed to get me started on this whole measurement project, is to wait until I get the microphone and get settled into the new place. I'm hopefully closing next Wednesday and will be moving throughout the holidays...nice huh? This way I can not only hear them, but spend a weekend trying all different combinations, taking measurements of what I'm hearing and get a good comparision complete with empirical data.

It would be nice to measure them 1) stock, 2)with Earl's mid-limiter circuit, 3) with the 802s with and w/o the limiter circuit (if necessary) and then 4) install the active XO w/bi-amps an compare the 806As with and without limiter to the 802s. That should tell me most of what I want to know.

Hi Alan ( AB ) ,

> Some ( more ) perspective, I think will help support your outlined timeline ;



> The 30923 filter that you are building up is a precuser to the same ( midrange reduction ) filter as found in the N1201-8a ( en-compassing; R2,C4,R4, with R3/R5 replaced by a simple 6ohm resistor ).

.


> BTW, it is this filter that helps the M19 work some of it's magic ( & now you are about to discover what it can & can not do for your specific system )
> By implementing it ( the 30923 ) with your stock AS-101 network, you can expect to rework the following "RED" curve into something approaching the "PURPLE" curve ( which should be quite a bit more pleasing & extended sounding // though only time will tell how close you will get to the purple trace ) ;



> Now this is the FR of the GPA 802-8GII on a 511 horn ( without a network, btw ) ;



> Right off the bat ( without any network magic employed ) IME the above curve is going to sound a whole lot better than your following curve ;



> It's just that it costs @ $ 500.00 to buy that "raw" curve/slope when the 30923 might get you to within spitting distance of "acceptable" .

> FWIW, many people prefer to listen to an almost flat or at least "shallow-slope" high-end , such as the Orange Trace seen below ( also, look at how similar my Green Trace is to the raw GPA trace / they do use the same diaphragm, btw ) ;



> If that orange curve best suits your listening needs ( & you'll find out once you get Johns 802s ) , then I do believe you'll want to buy some GPA 802-8GII drivers .
> You'll still need the 30923 filter to get the HF that flat .

> I spent a portion of yesterday listening to music through the above combo ( lashed up to my current system ) / and there is no doubt that it's a very sweet sounding combo .

> If you can borrow ABs 802s then I certainly would take him up on his generous offer ( & then I'm pretty sure you'll be wanting to own a pair ) .

[voice of the theater]

It would be nice to measure them 1) stock, 2)with Earl's mid-limiter circuit, 3) with the 802s with and w/o the limiter circuit (if necessary) and then 4) install the active XO w/bi-amps an compare the 806As with and without limiter to the 802s. That should tell me most of what I want to know.

Sounds like a good place to "start". I'll be interested to hear from you whether or not what measures "best" is also what sounds "best" (not always the case, of course)..... Keep in mind, the EQ built into the N1201-8A crossover network really makes the 802-8G sound amazing (and helps to make the response more flat). Hopefully, you can simulate that network with your active crossover......

> If you can borrow ABs 802s then I certainly would take him up on his generous offer ( & then I'm pretty sure you'll be wanting to own a pair ) .

Agree on both points here---VERY generous of AB to make this offer to you and yes, I think you'll want some 802-8G's after you hear them!

[Altec Best]

> If that orange curve best suits your listening needs ( & you'll find out once you get Johns 802s ) , then I do believe you'll want to buy some GPA 802-8GII drivers .
> You'll still need the 30923 filter to get the HF that flat .

> I spent a portion of yesterday listening to music through the above combo ( lashed up to my current system ) / and there is no doubt that it's a very sweet sounding combo .

> If you can borrow ABs 802s then I certainly would take him up on his generous offer ( & then I'm pretty sure you'll be wanting to own a pair ) .

My 802's have the lite frams in them in fact all mine do... The 23744, so Alan is going to be real careful with them isn't he ? If your only using 1 watt tube amps then they should be fine... I think you will like them as well..

Earl he could also use a M19/1201 crossover with the 802's too.. Or the 30923 with his XO as you suggest... No matter how you slice it the 802 will extend much farther than the 806 which i think will make the difference.. I won't ever use an 806 ever again.. Don't care for them much.


The 30923 is required more with a medium efficiency woofer like a 411.But once Alan gets all setup and can measure everything then we will know for sure...

But you still have to figure in how it actually sounds to his ears... A signal missing 14-18 Khz sounds kind of dull to me..I too prefer the low end but I also like the cymbal crashes and snare drum cracks to "HANG" in the air so to speak. That just sounds right to me...But to each his own.. Once he has something to compare it to he will know which way he wants to go.

[Earl K]

My 802's have the lite frams in them in fact all mine do... The 23744, so Alan is going to be real careful with them isn't he ? If your only using 1 watt tube amps then they should be fine... I think you will like them as well..

John,

( As a precaution against a disastrous OOPPPS ! moment ) why not simply give Alan some 802-8Gs loaded up with some 34647 diaphragms ( if you have some ) ?
- After all, that's what he'll be able to buy from GPA ( & 23744 diaphragms are not replaceable ) .

As mentioned above, I just listened to 802-8G(t) loaded with 34647 frams & they were very sweet .
- Don't be fooled by my graphs ( rolling off after 14K ) , just about all my traces were measured 40deg off-axis.
- When measured back on axis , my 34647 diaphragms measure very close ( in the UHF ) to the GPA measurements that I showed previously .

[alancohen]

I'd love to listen to the 23744s, but maybe like Earl mentioned, the 34647s might give me a more realistic sound of what I'd have to expect from a new set. Although I'm sure an 802 with a the heavier diaphragm is likely 97% or more of of what the 34647 sounds like. I just wouldn't want the responsibility if they can't be replaced.

Maybe when I get it all up and running you might want to stop by with them, install them in my speakers and you can hear them with likely the best sounding 1W of audio ever. Sounds like a good deal to me

BTW, the 300Bs arrived yesterday. There are 4 of them in each monoblock. No output transformers. 300Bs connected directly to the speaker with nothing in between. Sweet. Now I jsut have to figure out how to build them.

[alancohen]

Really???

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[cradeldorf]

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