Crossover Rebuild

[Carl Bill]

Hello All... been a while.

My old Model 19's have been showing their age for quite awhile now. I am planning to make a trip down to OKC and drop off the 802-8G's and 416-8B's with Bill and get them fixed up. I am also thinking the crossovers should be rebuilt. That is where I have a few questions on what products to avoid. I don't need the crogenically treated stuff... nothing stupid expensive. But also don't want to use something that is known to be inferior.

I have used Jentzen coils and Standard "Z" caps on other projects and they seem to function well. Have heard good and bad feedback on Solens caps. Looked at several posts and threads on this and other sites, but not finding anything too specific on anything to avoid.

Considering Erse coils and caps. Not too expensive and they have just about all the correct values.

Any thought on this topic? Suggestions? Should i also replace the resistors? I assume caps should be replaced at a minimum. Coils possibly.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

Carl Bill

[Altec Best]

Hi Carl Bill ! Solen Caps are just fine I used them in my 19's with great results.. Either Solens or Daytons are fine..I would replace the resistors as well.They are stupid cheap anyway so it's a no brainer IMO..The coils leave alone ! They rarely go bad and is a waste of money IMHO.They were made by Peerless in house at Altec so I wouldn't touch them they are part of the voicing for the 19.IMO what you are hearing With regard to your 19's is the caps are bad in your crossovers.. The 802's and the 416's I bet are just fine.If you fix up the crossovers first I bet all your problems with the 19's will disappear.. Unless there is something that happened to them that I am unaware about.This is exactly the same thing that happened to me and my 19's..After the crossover fix they were singing like a choir again... Parts Express will have most of the parts you need but for the rest I had to call Madisound for the 3.9Ω resistors..Also don't forget about the ground bypass modification as well..If you do a search you should find it easily. Best of Luck with your restoration.

They should look like this when you are done.

[Carl Bill]

The drivers are worn out... the HF lead wires are mechanically past their limits. I have taken out the 802's and replaced with some old 902's I had laying around while I ponder getting the 802's re-phram'ed in OKC. The 416's started going the last year... they need to be reconed.

These are 1978 models that I bought used from another previous Altec Employee in 1983. I have used them a lot... although I would not say abused, but pushed hard at times. So I am having them redone in OKC so the Alnicos can be zapped to ensure they are back in like new condition.

I also have a "new", pair of Model 19 Crossovers somewhere. Bought them new when I worked at Altec. Never been connected. I may try them out. If they have never been used, the caps should still be acceptable. Might be interesting to A/B one of them to one of my used pair after being re-capped.

Do wire-wound resistors really wear out?

I may save my $ on coils too. I was only considering replacements as the new ones would be air core instead of the iron cores in the originals. I was under the impression the air cores might help a bit. I don't think a coil really wears out either...

I am in no rush to make a move, but I may start looking to buy some of the parts. Not really going to be able to get the drivers to Bill anytime soon... but I should call to see when he is open around the Holidays.

[Altec Best]

The drivers are worn out... the HF lead wires are mechanically past their limits. I have taken out the 802's and replaced with some old 902's I had laying around while I ponder getting the 802's re-phram'ed in OKC. The 416's started going the last year... they need to be reconed.

These are 1978 models that I bought used from another previous Altec Employee in 1983. I have used them a lot... although I would not say abused, but pushed hard at times. So I am having them redone in OKC so the Alnicos can be zapped to ensure they are back in like new condition.

I also have a "new", pair of Model 19 Crossovers somewhere. Bought them new when I worked at Altec. Never been connected. I may try them out. If they have never been used, the caps should still be acceptable. Might be interesting to A/B one of them to one of my used pair after being re-capped.

Do wire-wound resistors really wear out?

I may save my $ on coils too. I was only considering replacements as the new ones would be air core instead of the iron cores in the originals. I was under the impression the air cores might help a bit. I don't think a coil really wears out either...

I am in no rush to make a move, but I may start looking to buy some of the parts. Not really going to be able to get the drivers to Bill anytime soon... but I should call to see when he is open around the Holidays.

I didn't realize you were in Oklahoma at first and thought there would be shipping costs involved..But now that I know your in driving distance to Bill then by all means I would run them right over there and let him zap them up...


Yes wire resistors wear out.. They Drift off spec.. Two of the four resistors in my 19 crossovers were out of spec so I went ahead and replaced them all.All You need to replace is the Caps,resistors,and the wire IMO..I would also upgrade the wire to 14awg stranded wire.One thing I would like to point out as well is back in the mid 70's the components used were like 10-20% of tolerances.Today they are only 5% or less..Meaning they will be much closer to stated values on Caps & Resistors..A 6uF cap will measure within 5% or less of that value.

[Carl Bill]

Went by the local electronic supply at lunch. All out of stock on anything I was looking for... So I sourced all of the parts on-line. Free shipping (and no taxes) on most. Had to pay shipping on some. Caps and resistors were all I ordered.

Yep, 5% tolerance an all values. I would bet that all of them are made off shore.

I will be "upgrading" the lead wires mainly just for simplicity. Probably use West Penn 25225 as I have a bunch of that and 16 ga should be heavier than what came from the factory. Probably don't need plenum rated inside the cabinets unless there is a new code I am unaware of.

I may try and find the old "new" crossovers this weekend and compare them to the current "old" crossovers before I make any changes. But that will also require the 802/416 repairs to be completed, so this may not be a finished project for awhile.

[Alien_Shore]

I am interested in how the NOS crossovers perform. Especially with caps, they go bad just sitting around for decades even without any use. The materials used dry out or ooze out, and like AB says they drift out of spec. I have heard many times from the pros on this board about the coils and keeping those old metal-core original coils as they sound best. I have not ever gotten around to measuring that effect - and would be very interested in putting a little science to that assessment. For example, I would really like to know if your NOS coils measure the same as the ones in the crossovers you are rebuilding... and doing a comparison with one of the peerless metal-core coils to a set of modern coils.