Valencia 846A crossover question

[BillWojo]

Your telling me that speakers that normally required 60W of power now only require 3W simply from rewiring the power delivery to them? Are the engineers at JBL really that stupid that they left so much resistance in the wiring that they needed about 20 times the power to perform?
I call BS on all these assertions! GM might have said it in a much nicer way but you spout a lot of BS. Telling folks to solder hugely oversized wires directly to the voice coil terminals? Another case of BS!
18GA wire is monstrous compare to the hair fine wire in a voice coil.
You keep spouting the same BS over and over. I have no idea who Dennis Fraker is and I don't really care. Back up your outlandish statements with a little science. After all, this stuff (AC power transmission) has been studied by some of the best engineers in the world for over 100 years and none of there research is contradictory. It's well understood how much power a wire can handle. For short runs and short burst, you can up the power delivery by magnitudes over the standard publicized reference books.
Maybe you should take some time out and study psycho acoustics.
Rant over

BillWojo

[LowOhms]

Your telling me that speakers that normally required 60W of power now only require 3W simply from rewiring the power delivery to them? Are the engineers at JBL really that stupid that they left so much resistance in the wiring that they needed about 20 times the power to perform?
I call BS on all these assertions! GM might have said it in a much nicer way but you spout a lot of BS. Telling folks to solder hugely oversized wires directly to the voice coil terminals? Another case of BS!
18GA wire is monstrous compare to the hair fine wire in a voice coil.
You keep spouting the same BS over and over. I have no idea who Dennis Fraker is and I don't really care. Back up your outlandish statements with a little science. After all, this stuff (AC power transmission) has been studied by some of the best engineers in the world for over 100 years and none of there research is contradictory. It's well understood how much power a wire can handle. For short runs and short burst, you can up the power delivery by magnitudes over the standard publicized reference books.
Maybe you should take some time out and study psycho acoustics.
Rant over

BillWojo

Dear Bill,

Sorry that you lost your cool in public.

Yes, everything I say is 100% truthful, as far as I can tell, and to the best of my knowledge, and so, it is conversely, 0% BS.

To explain who my good friend Dennis Fraker is, all one has to do is look at the latest Denver/ RMAF October 2016 show report, by Stereophile Magazine's Herb Reichert:

2016 RMAF REICHERT

Right after the ELAC report, starts with a picture of two of Dennis’ wonderful sounding RED monoblock amps :

RMAF 2016: Sunday at the Show with Herb | Stereophile.com

To read about reviewer Reichert's overall impressions of his favorite room at the show, and favorite people, with proper attitudes, read this next :

Go to this URL

RMAF 2016: An Assessment | Stereophile.com

Scroll down till you see in a darker text ( bolder lettering ) FAVORITE ROOMS

Read first three paragraphs, Dennis Fraker was the third paragraph.


There were only three people in the room, when Reichert attentively listened to Dennis GPA 604s, using wiring AS I described, Reichert, Fraker, and myself. It was the first time I had ever met Reichert in person. Reichert's glowing report of attitude, etc, had 100% to do with Dennis, his persona, his GPA MLTLs, and his audio display.

The answers needed to achieve " great audio " will never be found in books and manuals from Engineers. It is an art, and it requires listening and doing, sometimes, as in my case, a whole lifetime of doing it. Bill, I was listening to my Dad's 604Bs in the basement rec room of my childhood home, in Trenton, NJ, in 1952, likely well before you were born !!

In every example in your above rant, you were 100% wrong. There is an old saying " You can lead a horse to water ", so as a result of what you wrote above, I have little hope or time for you. Keep an OPEN mind, however, we all live and learn new things, each day !!

Best wishes to you...


Sincerely, Jeffrey D. Medwin

[BillWojo]

Jeff I do have an open mind but nothing that you state can be backed up by ANY electrical engineer. And yes, my education is in engineering. Please present some facts, not your opinions of which you have many, just present some factual data to back up some of your outlandish claims.
I don't care about your friend Dennis and what some reviewer said about his amp. If they were that great, the schematics would be on the internet for all to enjoy. The real success of an amp is when everyone and his brother tries to copy it, not when some reviewer raves about it.

BillWojo

[LowOhms]

Jeff I do have an open mind but nothing that you state can be backed up by ANY electrical engineer. And yes, my education is in engineering. Please present some facts, not your opinions of which you have many, just present some factual data to back up some of your outlandish claims.
I don't care about your friend Dennis and what some reviewer said about his amp. If they were that great, the schematics would be on the internet for all to enjoy. The real success of an amp is when everyone and his brother tries to copy it, not when some reviewer raves about it.

BillWojo

That is possibly, probably your precise problem : that you have some sort of engineering background.

IT screws up your creativity, to look at things in an open way, to view and consider things differently from how you have been trained. Its very common in engineering - trained individuals..

Is your engineering training blue collar or formal?? If formal, what college did you graduate from, and with what sort of degree? You were not taught spelling and grammar very well, so me thinks it is the former..

You ask me for facts, as written in a text book. THAT is your problem, HOW you look at things Bill !!

Most, but not all EEs I meet, I find to be very poor at doing GREAT audio. There are a few, very few, exceptions, and these guys are truly wonderful commodities, but rare. An EE's training - what they were taught, and how they think, STIFLES their creativity, and curiosity, and their ability to produce a product that is REALLY good in audio.

I am sure there are exceptions, but over my 72 years of meeting many many trained engineers, electrical, I have very little respect for how most generally THINK, when it comes to the audio art field.

AS an aside, I have recently befriended a Canadian EE, who I really enjoy sharing audio topics. So far, he's told me " he has learned a LOT from me ", and I often have to correct his " way " of looking at a subject, and his way of analyzing it. BUT, we are GOOD friends. As I say, there are exceptions.

The proof of the pudding, is in the eating. In audio, that always means listening, and having an open and creative mind.

Your statement, following, and your reasoning ability, makes NO SENSE at all :

" I don't care about your friend Dennis and what some reviewer said about his amp. If they were that great, the schematics would be on the internet for all to enjoy. The real success of an amp is when everyone and his brother tries to copy it, not when some reviewer raves about it. "

You probably have never even heard of Herb Reichert the way you write. Hes been a key player, since the late 70s, early 80's in high end audio - and in writing about audio Bill !! Very well liked and always respected. He is " into ALTEC " since the 1980s as I recall, VOTTs with a hundred pound slab of granite on the top - back then.

I'm certainly not the guy that needs to educate you as to who is who, in audio.

Jeff Medwin

[BillWojo]

Jeff, there is no reason to insult me or make remarks about my character. That is uncalled for.
You are the one that will not listen to anything that anybody says that doesn't agree with your assertions.
You advocate wiring speakers and crossovers with cables that will support many magnitudes of the current that they will ever see. Why is that?
Please explain to me how the output transformers on your tube amps can possibly pass the huge amount of current that your suggesting will reach the drivers.
Did you EVER hear of saturation?
Take a little time off of the audio forums and read up on this. Yes, a good physics book or electrical engineering book will suffice. Once you begin to understand some of this basic knowledge you will begin to understand just how absurd your assertions really are.
Your lack of knowledge is outstanding.

BillWojo

[Elitopus1]

The people who designed and built the Altec drivers and speakers we love were trained the same way as an EE. They did math the hard way too. The guys who built the original WE and Altec drivers that are still so good today. Sure there is some magic to them, but mostly science.