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Thread: Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

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    Hostboard Member kipduff's Avatar
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    Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

    My apologies- I am unable to search forums- keep getting message: "connection to 127.0.0.1:9312 failed (errno=111, msg=Connection refused)".

    Looking for recommendations for wiring between Xovers and drivers. Need to run about 1.5 foot wiring between my GPA N604-8A Xovers and 604-8K LF and HF drivers. These Xovers currently have about 3' of apparently 14ga wires. My instinct at this point is for smaller gauge shorter wiring- I can run short because I am going to temporarily build open baffles with Xovers mounted near drivers. I'm using the JEL/Japanese 31.5" X 36.5" design for this quick build- building myself from 3/4" birch ply. I know open baffle is not an ideal set up, but I bought these speakers about 4 months ago and haven't been able to listen to them yet. Don't have time or space for proper enclosure at this point and curriosity is killing me. I know Jeff Markwart mentioned a version of "vampire" brand wire, but I think is no longer available. I am using a 300B tube amp with Audio Research Corp. speaker cables. Any consensus/things people are happy with?

    Thanks. Kip.........

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    Any recommendations internal speaker wire?


    Altec Best's Avatar
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    Re: Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

    Search function is one of many things not working properly here at the moment.

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    Hostboard Member kipduff's Avatar
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    Re: Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Altec Best View Post
    Search function is one of many things not working properly here at the moment.
    Good to know that it's not just me!

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    Re: Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

    I use regular copper "lamp cord" 12 awg wire in and between all my speakers. I am very happy with it.

    For some fancier wire, there is some mil-spec stuff that is cheap and also excellent sounding. M22759-11 is the spec. Its silver coated copper. A few users here will vouch for it.

    I find that speaker wire it something you just have to try a bunch and choose which you like the best. Some people are very serious about it. There's many a speaker wire thread at Audiokarma that gets locked.

    Btw, sounds like a cool project you have going. Post some pics when you get it all together.
    Last edited by Elitopus1; June 12th, 2017 at 12:25 AM.

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    Senior Hostboard Member mah's Avatar
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    Re: Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

    18 AWG is usually suitable for most domestic speaker crossovers. Go a gauge thicker for high power amps or if it makes you feel more comfortable. Thicker than 18 AWG may require more skill in soldering.

    OT Crossover Wiring
    Last edited by mah; June 12th, 2017 at 03:03 AM.
    Opinion is only as valid as its verifiable supporting evidence.

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    Senior Hostboard Member LowOhms's Avatar
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    Re: Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by kipduff View Post
    My apologies- I am unable to search forums- keep getting message: "connection to 127.0.0.1:9312 failed (errno=111, msg=Connection refused)".

    Looking for recommendations for wiring between Xovers and drivers. Need to run about 1.5 foot wiring between my GPA N604-8A Xovers and 604-8K LF and HF drivers. These Xovers currently have about 3' of apparently 14ga wires. My instinct at this point is for smaller gauge shorter wiring- I can run short because I am going to temporarily build open baffles with Xovers mounted near drivers. I'm using the JEL/Japanese 31.5" X 36.5" design for this quick build- building myself from 3/4" birch ply. I know open baffle is not an ideal set up, but I bought these speakers about 4 months ago and haven't been able to listen to them yet. Don't have time or space for proper enclosure at this point and curriosity is killing me. I know Jeff Markwart mentioned a version of "vampire" brand wire, but I think is no longer available. I am using a 300B tube amp with Audio Research Corp. speaker cables. Any consensus/things people are happy with?

    Thanks. Kip.........
    Hi Kip,

    Here is what I find works best, crossover to drivers - and especially with lower powered tube amps:

    From the Crossover to the high frequency compression drivers, use a 57 1/8th inch run of M22759/11 16 , ( 16 AWG, so you don't lose the highs ) one run for each polarity, do not twist the two wires.

    For the crossover to the Woofer, use TWO runs of 12 AWG for EACH polarity. That would be m22759/11 12 and you can lightly twist the two wires in each polarity, but NOT the two polarities together. Again, use 57 1/8th inch length intervals.

    I also find the ALTECs sound best when the press to fit connectors, stock on the drivers, are bypassed completely ( ie - not used ). I solder the 57 1/8th inch long 16 AWG m22759/11 16 directly to the tabs on the diaphragm ( did this just last night to a pair of 802Ds) . Place a clean rag OVER the diaphragm when soldering, to avoid splatters onto the diaphragm. I prefer Wonder Solder. In and out QUICK with a HOT gun.

    On the woofer, I also prefer to bypass the crummy press-to-fit connectors, temporarily placing a rag over the backside of the cone when soldering, and solder the two 12 AWG Mil Spec wires DIRECTLY to the inner ALTEC stock terminal, that holds the lead-in wire to the voice coil. Loop each double 12 woofer wire, off the terminals and Double Tie Wrap each double 12 AWG run to the ALTEC woofer 's frame, to avoid TUG damage. Double 12 to each polarity equals about 9 AWG effective.

    To my ears, under hard drive, direct soldering and the wiring, precisely as described, sounds nicer - more dynamic, is lower in distortion, than using a stock NON soldered press to-fit-connections and crummy wire. Really, IMHO, no comparison between the two methods, if you seek ultimate ALTEC performance.

    Oh, from amp to speaker, I use two 57 1/8th inch lengths ( 114 1/4 inch runs ) of TRIPLE m22759/11 12 . I prefer to keep the two speaker wire polarities TOTALLY separate, no light twisting, they simply do not touch each other. Its very audible. If you have a long distance between amp and speakers, the low powered tube amp will under-perform with long speaker wires. In that case, use a long interconnect, and short speaker wire ( eg: a single 57 1/8th inch run - amp to speaker , DOUBLE 12 AWG ).... and have the amps placed right near the speaker.

    For anyone who posts that what I propose ( and do !! ) is " unnecessary ", I can GUARANTEE you Kip, they haven't tried it nor heard it, nor will they have the mindset to follow this precisely as was described. I LOVE this wiring, biggest ( wiring ) performance bang for the buck !! No deviations. Wonder Solder. If you execute this, as described, PLEASE share with us all your listening experience and impressions. Have fun, I do.


    Low Ohms..... Jeff Medwin

    ( 825s, 515Bs, 802Ds 400 pounds of mass loading per enclosure, DIY crossover, Type 46 or JJ 2A3-40 DIY Direct-Coupled single-ended tube amps )

    PS: For people who may be unaware, 57 1/8 th inches, and multiples and divisors thereof, is a length developed by Audio Engineer Robert W. Fulton, in the 1970s, which he applied to all his wiring.

    Fulton Musical Industries - Biography
    Last edited by LowOhms; June 20th, 2017 at 10:42 PM.

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    Hostboard Member kipduff's Avatar
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    Re: Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

    Btw, sounds like a cool project you have going. Post some pics when you get it all together. [/QUOTE]

    I'll be happy to. Hope to have them completed soon.......

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    Junior Hostboard Member thenewold's Avatar
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    Re: Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

    Hello. Another option is the new Duelund tinned copper wire. (16awg) I've used it internally in two separate pairs of speakers and as speaker wire runs from low watt tube amps. It's $9.99/meter currently at Partsconnexion. Worthy of a listen.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

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    Senior Hostboard Member jmarkwart's Avatar
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    Re: Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by kipduff View Post
    My apologies- I am unable to search forums- keep getting message: "connection to 127.0.0.1:9312 failed (errno=111, msg=Connection refused)".

    Looking for recommendations for wiring between Xovers and drivers. Need to run about 1.5 foot wiring between my GPA N604-8A Xovers and 604-8K LF and HF drivers. These Xovers currently have about 3' of apparently 14ga wires. My instinct at this point is for smaller gauge shorter wiring- I can run short because I am going to temporarily build open baffles with Xovers mounted near drivers. I'm using the JEL/Japanese 31.5" X 36.5" design for this quick build- building myself from 3/4" birch ply. I know open baffle is not an ideal set up, but I bought these speakers about 4 months ago and haven't been able to listen to them yet. Don't have time or space for proper enclosure at this point and curriosity is killing me. I know Jeff Markwart mentioned a version of "vampire" brand wire, but I think is no longer available. I am using a 300B tube amp with Audio Research Corp. speaker cables. Any consensus/things people are happy with?

    Thanks. Kip.........
    Kip,

    I listened to a lot of different types of wire over the years on Altec compression drivers, but always heard low-level white noise in the horn output regardless of the type of wire used. That changed forever when I tried some long-crystal continuous cast copper from Vampire and instead heard total background silence, even with my ear stuck inside the horn's mouth! I've used it for both cabling and hookup wire ever since. I used to buy it in bulk directly from the distributor when I was building speakers, so it may only be available now directly in small quantities from retail re-sellers. A quick search of the web shows that Ohno style long-crystal copper wire is still available from other vendors. Well worth it if you like dead silent backgrounds from your horns and a very transparent sounding wire overall.

    Jeff

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    Senior Hostboard Member LowOhms's Avatar
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    Re: Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by thenewold View Post
    Hello. Another option is the new Duelund tinned copper wire. (16awg) I've used it internally in two separate pairs of speakers and as speaker wire runs from low watt tube amps. It's $9.99/meter currently at Partsconnexion. Worthy of a listen.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

    Hi, Liked your post.

    (Two suggestions ) :

    ( Suggestion 1) Suggest you consider trying some Mil Spec wire, m22759/11 16 of the same gauge that you pay $9.95 / meter, and just to compare wire SONICS of the two types, so to speak.

    You can purchase 145 feet of it for $1.20 / yard at the following eBay auction,

    M22759/11-16-5 PTFE Extruded Hookup SILVER 16 AWG Green 145'

    Compare 16 AWG to 16 AWG, let us know what you think and hear.

    ( Suggestion 2 ) With low powered tube amps, transfer function is a key requisite to maintain dynamic contrasting, at ALTEC speaker drive levels, which is usually using one Watt or less of amplifier power.

    I find 16 AWG about ideal for wiring the tweeter parts of my DIY A7 crossover, and to run from my crossover, to my 802Ds.

    For woofers and between amp and crossover, I typically find the equivalent of 9 AWG needed, ( two 12 AWG runs of m227859/11 12, for each woofer polarity ) to couple the low powered tube amp for maximum transfer efficiency, and get as much instantaneous peak power to the drivers, in my case, 515Bs. Likewise, I prefer heavy wiring in the woofer circuit of passive crossovers, so as not to lose transfer efficiency.

    Of course, there is a limit to high frequency reproduction, when using heavy ( low AWG ) pure copper wire. Silver improves high frequencies, but it is cost prohibitive for us normal people. It is HARD to beat Siltech wire, 13 AWG, which is mainly silver with a little gold in it as I recall, lovely ....but WAY out of line in cost.

    Now if we wanna use the wire thenewold suggested, at 16 AWG, it would take about EIGHT runs in parallel, to make an 8 AWG equivalent to the ALTEC woofer. That is $79.60 a meter when Dueland is "on sale".

    Enter m22759/11, which is copper stranded and heavily ( nicely ) silver plated, made to military specifications,. and available on eBay all the time, just nicely low-ball the sellers. 12 AWG can be had at $0.50 a foot, and, for the smaller gauges, as little as $0.20 or $0.30 a foot. 9 AWG in Mil Spec is about $3.00 a yard, versus 8 AWG in Dueland, at my above-estimated $79.60 a meter. The latter ( Dueland multiples ) to me is obviously cost prohibitive, and it will prevent normal people from trying the implementations I suggest in this thread.

    Maintaining transfer efficiency, of the music, through the audio amplifier, and to the speaker, at the one watt power level, is the goal of the ideal ALTEC playback system, since most of the time, we listen at one Watt or less. I have only met a few people in this world, who know this, and are able to do this.

    For about the last month, I have been testing a new design of mine, a SE Type 46 stereo amp circuit on my ALTEC system, speakers wired internally, just as I suggested. I run 22 mA. at 250 VDC P-K across the Finals tube, which translates to about 1.3 Watts. Hearing the system play, would be an education. I am able to get fabulous dynamic contrasting, speed, and tone, and detail... available on my Altec SYSTEM, as wired.

    So the challenge, I find, is to maintain total system ( amp through to the drivers ) transfer function, at the one Watt power level, for the ultimate in an ALTEC listening experience.

    So as not to mislead, and be complete, my long-term ALTEC solution is to use a Single Ended Directly-Coupled JJ 2A3-40 all-triode monaural amplifier pair, about 3 or 4 Watts, with no negative feedback. Those amps are designed, and get built by me this summer.

    Now, all the conventional " thinkers " ???, and educated beyond hope types, can make fun of me. Go at it. Have fun, I sure am !! Thanks for listening.


    Low Ohms......Jeff Medwin
    Last edited by LowOhms; June 14th, 2017 at 05:43 PM.

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