Another "I Wonder . . . " Question

[LowOhms]

"Without offending, I vote for garbled nonsense"
In response to this I must say with all due respect and I mean with all due respect Jeff you don't seem to know shit from shinola.
Your "True Story" sounds like the biggest load of B.S. ive read in awhile and I read alot "flat to 80khz" boy oh boy things aren't like they used to make them somebody should've stopped coming up with new designs and just figured out how to replicate ol' man fulton's big ol speaker. I think you should read up on hearing tests and a basic understanding of human hearing before bad mouthing the other forum members for calling out your poorly laid out sales pitches time after time.

Here's a thought if someone were to create a poll offering an option of who wants to hear the ramblings of a closed minded know it all old man vs not having to read about 57 and quarter inches or whatever the koolaid has been spiked with up on the ol' Medwin Ranch for the evening. Would you lay of posting anything unless asked to if the answer to that poll were unanimous.

Just a thought and I said this "with all due respect" so you can't get mad!



For your ninth post on this Forum, you are not doing too well.

I found out today, from Bill Wojo, this Forum's motto is " All Audio, No attitude".

Allow me to turn the other cheek, and educate you,........and even hopefully Mr. Wojo, on where I come from.

Here are two URLS, for you to read up on, if you care to, about the late Mr. Robert W. Fulton.

Fulton Musical Industries - Biography

Fulton Musical Industries - Home

It is VERY difficult for me to figure out this Forum's picture posting softwear, so, I have just taken the time to re-type below - from the early 1980s , a specification sheet, from the speakers I owned.

I would set-up these speakers for RWF's new customers ( I volunteered myself, as RWF's Southern California Regional Representative, while I was also a Beverly Hills Prudential - Bache stockbroker ). It IS tedious to type this out, but people need to know. Done verbatim, his words, his design, his description...RWF..

BTW, how does this "level" of audio compare to " Zilch:" who you reference in your posting ?? In the 1980s, RWF was regularly employing a 2 GHz Tektronics scope, to do his audio and speaker designing. Did Zilch also own and use one of those??



Specification:

The Modular P-20 Premiere features accurate vertical phase alignment, precision horizontal speed, and time domain alignment of its 9-way adjustable line drive system. It will play from Bach to Rock, on any quality amplifier with 40 to 1000+ watts of available power. Frequency response: 13 Hz to 80 KHz of complex musical information. Impedance 8 ohms. Driver complement : Two 12" sub woofers, one 12" mid woofer, one 10 " upper woofer, one Kinetic Barrier isolated low doppler, mid range enclosure, one special 5 element , wide range Kinetic Barrier isolated tweeter array. Crossover frequencies: 39 HZ, 80 Hz, 195 Hz, 2.4 KHz, 8 KHz, 26 KHz, 42 KHz. Cabinet in rich American walnut. Cabinet dimensions: 25 " wide X 22 " deep X 60 " high. Shipping wt.: 300 pounds each. Warranty: 5 years. Price per pair $6,500.



If anyone wants a copy of the P-20 series sheet, with a photo and additional description, email me. Robert w. Fulton was a man of Faith, so I knew I could trust him with anything and everything he would say to me. The way Robert conducted himself, actually allowed me to accept Christ, as the Messiah, when I got older.

We would use an LP he recorded, with his 100 piece church's choir, and the words from Philippians 2:5-11 KJV, to adjust the Premieres. over and over gain, till we got it good. Look up the passages !!

For the 80 year old woman who couldn't hear past 5K, it was the removal of the 42 KHz tweeter fuse, it seems, that had her comment " what happened to the highs ". It called resultants...... into the midrange.

RWF would regularly tell me, he measured a pair of speakers to be shipped out, going out to 110 KHZ. At least five times he said that to me over the last several years of his life. ( 1925-1988 ). RIP, RWF.




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Where does the 802D roll off, I feel like Zilch measured it back in the day and had a graph

SEE Jeff's responses above, in blue. Thanks for looking.

[Phil-G]

all of you should be really glad i'm not a moderator.

[Elitopus1]

all of you should be really glad i'm not a moderator.

Thats how I feel about being a cop. Its probably good that I am not. Lol

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Jeff: You should google "Zilch Audiokarma" and read some of his posts. He was an Altec, JBL, and all around horn guru. He was a member of a few more forums and will show up there also.

He listened to, and tested a bunch of different drivers and speakers. When you use test results, it can show you what you were hearing. Testing is important also.

He passed away over 5 years ago.

[LowOhms]

Thats how I feel about being a cop. Its probably good that I am not. Lol

- - - Updated - - -

Jeff: You should google "Zilch Audiokarma" and read some of his posts. He was an Altec, JBL, and all around horn guru. He was a member of a few more forums and will show up there also.

He listened to, and tested a bunch of different drivers and speakers. When you use test results, it can show you what you were hearing. Testing is important also.

He passed away over 5 years ago.

Hi,

Thanks E1, I was aware of him, he has a good reputation.

Speakers...... are but part of the equation, I find.

Any vintage good ALTEC model, or a new GPA, does fine, IME, IMHO !!


Jeff ................ Low Ohms

[Nickd]

The post went a bit off topic.
i think you found the Achilles heel of the 802. You want just a bit more up top. I use 902's in the Manta Rey horn and just wish they had a bit more weight down low.
No free lunch in a two way speaker.

Even though brother Medwin is a bit off his rocker and I would ban both him and Mah if I were the sheriff.
He has a point with bypass caps. The right mix of a great cap with a proper bypass cap can help "open up" the highs on any really good driver.

I just use Sonicap's and the original wire that came with my Model 14's.
Highs to die for.

[streetwise23]

The post went a bit off topic.
i think you found the Achilles heel of the 802. You want just a bit more up top. I use 902's in the Manta Rey horn and just wish they had a bit more weight down low.
No free lunch in a two way speaker.

Even though brother Medwin is a bit off his rocker and I would ban both him and Mah if I were the sheriff.
He has a point with bypass caps. The right mix of a great cap with a proper bypass cap can help "open up" the highs on any really good driver.

I just use Sonicap's and the original wire that came with my Model 14's.
Highs to die for.

Right on about the 802 though a little cd eq in a active crossover might help an 802, also the bypass caps should help a driver do its thang, ive noticed in my ol' snell JII that Pete Snell threw together he went abit crazy with bypass caps and Audio Note surely recognized a good design when they bought the rights to his designs.

[LowOhms]

The post went a bit off topic.
i think you found the Achilles heel of the 802. You want just a bit more up top. I use 902's in the Manta Rey horn and just wish they had a bit more weight down low.
No free lunch in a two way speaker.

Even though brother Medwin is a bit off his rocker and I would ban both him and Mah if I were the sheriff.
He has a point with bypass caps. The right mix of a great cap with a proper bypass cap can help "open up" the highs on any really good driver.

I just use Sonicap's and the original wire that came with my Model 14's.
Highs to die for.

Yep.........on Bypass Caps.

On my ALTEC crossovers, I have settled on using SIX different values and types of bypass caps, in a 12 db Butterworth configuration on my tweeter, and three bypasses on my woofer.

I do the same thing, five to six bypasses, for EVERY cap location in my SET amps, to maintain wide bandwidth in a SET amp.

" Me crazy, YOU are the one who is drawing all those dirty pictures !!" ( Anyone here know that OLD joke ?? )

There are modern film caps out now, industrially priced, that seriously outperform most audiophile priced caps you can use. Nifty. I may do a post on that soon.

Jeff

[GM]

Considering the HF rolloff of my 802Ds, I was wondering what would happen if I made a "Y" adaptor and mounted the 802s on one flange, and a UHF driver of some sort (say, PRV Audio D230TI?) on the other. With a steep crossover dividing the two at, say, 10K, would the result be nice extended range, or garbled nonsense?

GeeDeeEmm

In theory, it will work fine, but as noted, combining multiple throats is problematic at best, so for high SQ one ideally has to do it like DSL does with its Unity/Synergy concept multi-way horns.

Better to adjust the horn for best overall tonal blend to the woofer [most of the HF will 'disappear'], then use a bypass cap around the attenuation to let through however much HF is required to tonally balance it out to 15-20 kHz depending on how much mid-band efficiency you're willing to trade.

'Best' is to use a bigger horn to get more tuning flexibility.

'SOTA' is to jack it up 6 ft and slide in a [3] way Synergy concept + separate sub system XO'd at 80 Hz .

GM

[tomt]

Considering the HF rolloff of my 802Ds, I was wondering what would happen if I made a "Y" adaptor and mounted the 802s on one flange, and a UHF driver of some sort (say, PRV Audio D230TI?) on the other. With a steep crossover dividing the two at, say, 10K, would the result be nice extended range, or garbled nonsense?

GeeDeeEmm

What old guy said.

And ,

This may very well be the state of the art,

thus far in supertweeters -



MURATA　村田製作所　球形ツィーター　ES103A　1... - ヤフオク!

[LowOhms]

The post went a bit off topic.
i think you found the Achilles heel of the 802. You want just a bit more up top. I use 902's in the Manta Rey horn and just wish they had a bit more weight down low.
No free lunch in a two way speaker.

Even though brother Medwin is a bit off his rocker and I would ban both him and Mah if I were the sheriff.
He has a point with bypass caps. The right mix of a great cap with a proper bypass cap can help "open up" the highs on any really good driver.

I just use Sonicap's and the original wire that came with my Model 14's.
Highs to die for.

NICKD,

OK, We can easily "add WEIGHT DOWN LOW" on the 902.

To the main series film cap in your crossover, 902 section, add a 0.68 uF film bypass. That value plays down into the 902's UPPER bass ranges. The best brand/type and value is not stocked, so I would suggest a 600 VDC or higher WIMA MKP4 flatplate from Mouser as a compromised but reasonable substitute.

ALSO, be SURE to add, a 0.22 WIMA FKP1 as part of that bypass bundle, AVAILABLE from Mouser, 400 VDC on up. That 0.22 will fill-in the 902's MIDDLE MIDRANGE, and blend music information INTO YOUR ROOM, from where the 0.68 doesn't play, gloriously !!

Put precisely the same two types and value caps on the woofer's main cap, as its own "upper" bypass bundle, since the woofers play into the MIDS on our ALTEC two ways.

Let us ALL know what YOU hear doing this. Mouser has em, not costly !!


Jeff Medwin.....Low Ohms

PS, Once you hear that, gain some confidence, contact me, and we can do the highs...deliciously !!