MAH vs LOW OHMS

[LOUDER]

I like both of you contributing to the board but am tired of you screwing up threads. You can squibble and squable here all you want. Fifteen Rounds, ten point scouring system and Maquis of Queensberry rules apply. No hitting below the belt and come out fighting......

[tomt]

. jeff on the other hand comes off as pompous and self important.

Some of that does seem, like something

From a tv show.

However,

This year, is the 20th, that i've known jeff.

(or 22ed, something like that)

While everybody has issues,

Jeff does not actually try to be 'pompus and/or self important'.

Even tho, there is a unusual intensity, that moves around wherever he may go.

I can actully feel that in several people.


Yet things happen the way they do.

And not everything, is as it might seem.



My own first impression, was not very faverable.(why can't i spell?)

As the years rolled by, twas obovius, <no spell checkr >

He is not trying to hurt any one.

Just trying to share what he has found.

How ever one might see his posts,

He is not the evil creep that those who are looking for an enemy want him to be.


So lets all put on an extra portion of Maturity, and procced acordingly.

[LowOhms]

TomT,

Thanks, you got my intent nicely.

Good example ......See today's Post #51, on the " 802 Field Coil " Wojo thread.

Wire separating was done on Greg Bradford's 46 Amp.

LOL, my apartment is starting to look like Enid Lumley's when I visited her in 1982, .... separated wires flying everywheres !!


Jeff

[valhallax]

I actually bought the very wire jeff suggested for my 1505's..but I will be running my horns with a ss amp all the same. a 9441..I take all opinions as just that and if it seems reasonable then.. mah however has also added so much to this forum, I like his engineering look at things, and his tenacity, thank you all the same, but I do miss bfish, brad's a helluva guy, and this place aint the same w/o him. lets not run anyone off except the cat...fckn cats

[mah]

Ditto re Brad. I purchased my 416s from Brad(US to Australia). Dealing with him was a real pleasure. We kept in touch for a few years. The circumstance of his departure still lingers and saddens me.

[streetwise23]

Re: Any recommendations internal speaker wire?



G-d forbid, someone mention listening to music as a "test" of equipment. Ohhh no, ya gotta have a written paper on file, even if its WRONG, but it must be published, and an EE degree is the ticket to the truth..

What the heck will a hearing test tell about listening to music reproduction in a home environment. I want to remind you all, its FAR more complex than the simplistic EEs theories would have you think!! mah, you are grasping for straws, attacking me, when you ask for a hearing test. Its hilarious, what you are, ( which I despise ) and how you act.


How can one explain that 80 year old woman on Robert Fulton's listening panel " Who couldn't hear a watch tick", say " Whats happened to the highs" when Robert Fulton removed the fuses from his "big" speaker system, which came-in from 42 KHZ on up, and extended to 80 to 110 kHZ ???????? Resultants come down into the midrange, and any good, experienced listener will KNOW whats good and what doesn't cut it !!

How old is Bill H at GPA ?? He KNOWS whats good !!

Also, If I don't have " credibility " according to mah, please consider my two audio mentors.

My first mentor, ( 1978-1988 ) Robert W. Fulton, OWNED / RAN an audio company, had one of TWO of the best rated speakers made, on the face of THIS earth, according to Stereophile's founder, J.Gordon Holt - for high end audio.

The other speaker system Gordon Holt suggested at that time was a Infinity ServoStat system, which was Arnie Nudell's company. I personally knew both these guys, Arnie was local, would buy Decca cartridges from me, and at one time or another, I ran BOTH of their speakers in my own apartment. What was mah and Wojo listening to back then, I'd love to know. What would their sound systems sound like to ME, ( not them ! ) IN their homes, today, in 2017 ???

My second Audio mentor, ( 1988-2017 ) heavily helping me in the last ten or so years, ( as I got back into ALTEC and high efficiency speakers ), is Dennis Fraker of Serious Stereo, Livingston, MT. What are HIS credentials.?? Well, I have mentioned them more than once.

In 2005 ( Stephaen Harrell, Six Moons Audio ) and in 2016 ( Stereophile Magazine, Herb Reichert) gave Dennis Fraker FABULOUS reviews for his demos those years at the big RMAF Denver audio show. Read them. They are on line.

Mr. Harrell seemingly got "into" 604s as a result of visiting Dennis' RMAF room. Read about, and see photos of Mr. Harrell's subsequent GPA / ALTEC 604 journey, here :

6moons audio reviews: Stephæn's Altec 604 Dream Speaker

And here, below, is Mr. Harrell's assesment of what he HEARD, at Dennis's room, in 2005:

6moons.com - industry features: Rocky Mountain Audio Fest 2005

Both reviewers saying ......best sounding room at the entire show, out of maybe 200 or 300 audio exhibitors in the audio business, each year.


On a very personal note, Mr. Futon played a huge role in my life. He, ( primarily by his consistent Christian conduct ), led me to eventually accept Jesus Christ. Mr Fraker, led me to having the best possible amplifier, within my means, for me to enjoy in my home hi fi. Fulton was, and Fraker is, ....a cherished friend.


***** mah and Wojo, I am NOT Mr. Fulton, and I am NOT Mr. Fraker, but I am fairly confident I am hearing about the best there exists, especially on ALTEC / GPA, or CLOSE to it, and I will always respectfully tell you and others the truth as I know it. *****

. There really IS only one best,..... it is, by definition, singular !!! Insulting you??... so sorry. That is just the way it is. I won't back down from speaking my mind.

I don't have to prove it. You two don't even really have to understand. I don't worry much, what you two attackers think.

I may make errors from time to time. But remember this .............The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Back to the subject of this thread, the wiring information I clearly outlined in this thread, is part of the equation thast " won the RMAF show" in 2016 - on GPA 604s !! Do as YOU please!! Its nice for me to get to know you all.

Have fun guys and girls, I sure do !!


Jeff Medwin


As per Mah's request brought this over here seemed like a good idea instead of more thread jacking being my main complaint. First and foremost Jeff's argument "G-d forbid, someone mention listening to music as a "test" of equipment. Ohhh no, ya gotta have a written paper on file" so your saying subjective listening tests are equal to if not better than any scientific approach of reasonable accuracy? You have your right to an opinion yet what your ""haters are concerned with isn't that you have an opinion its that you offer it as fact; This seems to be purposefully misleading on your part and isn't helpful for people like myself looking to better there speakers in a real or scientific way not necessarily in Jeff's opinion. I honestly don't believe either Bill or Mah are trying to attack you personally as the clearly have made a point in stating that your friends find you to be of good company.

Onto Mr. Fulton's hearing test with the old lady, yet again this is a nice story, but not a peer reviewed scientific double blind study though it is portrayed as such. I doubt anyone would believe this anecdote after reading the same person also stating that a hearing test is of no use or importance in the critical listening of music.

Fulton and Fraker may be credible as far as making great equipment, this doesn't mean all of there methods are an absolute answer, Fulton was good in his day im sure but as time goes on has been passed in regards to his methods by more modern equipment and development that is the nature of the business. There isn't a single person at one moment that has all the answers and does everything right if that were the case when the first SET amps were built there wouldn't be any reason for tweaking designs or new equipment. If not following the precise method to how Mr Fraker wires his amps makes or breaks how good his amp is that doesn't say much toward the rest of the design or any one else.


"For your ninth post on this Forum, you are not doing too well." not to sure what that means? Does it seem I have to many hobbies and lack serious enough devotion to sidetrack and mislead posters on forums like yourself or is it that you didn't see the humor I found in knowing I would get this kind of a rise out of you by stating "with all due respect" and how you lack objectivity when it comes to modern science in audio.

Anyways good luck Jeff im sure you most likely didn't grasp or chose not to accept my points.
Also very interested in hearing about your amp when you do get it ready Im curious what your opinion is about the 2a3 vs other SET desigins, just wondering whats taking so long on the build.
Thanks

[LowOhms]

Streetwise23,

Thanks for your post. You write :

"Onto Mr. Fulton's hearing test with the old lady, yet again this is a nice story, but not a peer reviewed scientific double blind study though it is portrayed as such. I doubt anyone would believe this anecdote after reading the same person also stating that a hearing test is of no use or importance in the critical listening of music.
"

You missed the point totally. Mr. Fulton suggested that that woman couldn't hear over 5 KHz. or a watch ticking, if you put it to her ear. She would FLUNK any hearing test Streetwise. But she could detect instantly ( through resultants in the midrange ) when something was wrong, when 42 kHz and 80-110 KHz were taken out of the play-back chain !!


- - - - - - - - - - - -


" Also very interested in hearing about your amp when you do get it ready Im curious what your opinion is about the 2a3 vs other SET desigins, just wondering whats taking so long on the build.
Thanks "


- - - - - - - - - -

You are asking me TWO questions in one sentence.... on an amp build.

One question seems to be a " 2A3" versus any other tube types, on our ALTEC speakers, of course.

A second question seems to be about basic SET designs and topologies.


- - - - - - - -

I will comment on both:

On tubes, I find the 2A3 as a Finals tube to be a great overall choice. It puts out a solid 3 Watts, and it can be had reasonably in the form of a JJ 2A3-40, which IMHO, is the best overall choice one can make in the 2A3 family, on a cost versus performance basis.

A runner up tube choice for Finals, would possibly be the Type 46, from a limited ( one month ) experience with the tube..only 1.3 Watts. I prefer the Type 46, to my 2015 and 2016 Type 45 builds, by a wide margin, and I would only build with either of the two tubes I mentioned, the overall preference.... to the JJ 2A3-40.

On tube amps for ALTEC speakers, there is only one topology that I feel and hear is in-the-running. Two stage, SET, Direct-Coupled, with a LSES ( low stored energy supply ) to power it. No negative feedback what-so-ever. The driver stage will be high mu, high impedance, and have Shunt B+ regulation. See my post on this Forum, referring folks to the two Italians, Marzio and Jelasi, and their Sound Practices tube amp article, as a background read.

- - - - - - - -

I have just gotten my DIY and month-old Type 46 amp going fairly well. Only one or two little bugs to work out.

The two new monaural JJ 2A3-40 amps are next to build - probably over the next 60 days. Then I am done. Heyboer Transformers is presently building power transformers to my spec, and a local steel company is plasma cutting and will brake 14 gauge steel, for those two mono chassis. This DC SE monaural amp pair will be " IT " for me, FOR A LONG LONG TIME, AFAICT.


Jeff ......Low Ohms

[GM]

FYI, FWIW........

There's Life Above 20 Kilohertz!

A Survey of Musical Instrument Spectra to 102.4 kHz: There's life above 20 kilohertz! A survey of musical instrument spectra to 102.4 kHz

GM

[LowOhms]

As posted by Jeff:

"But she could detect instantly ( through resultants in the midrange ) when something was wrong, when 42 kHz and 80-110 KHz were taken out of the play-back chain "

So what kind of drivers was he using to play up in those frequency's? What recordings did he use that had information up there, what instruments play up there and how was this all done? Jeff, my BS meter is pegged off the scale at this point. Actually, I think you bent the pointer!

BillWojo

You are the one who has to find the answers, I already know MOST of what you ask. Lived through it, day by day. You need to learn this stuff. Real audio is not 20 to 20K.

Mr. Fulton personally owned 34 O'Scopes, REGULARLY used a 2 GIGahertz TEKTRONICs scope in the 1980s, to study audio and do his speaker and audio designing Bill.

2 GHZ. That is 2,000,000,000 Hz. 1 GHz is 10 to the 9th Hz.


Jeff....Low Ohms.

[tomt]

Mr. Fulton personally ...

Made his own recordings.

With an electrostatic microphone.

That i would like to hear more about.

In another thread ...