tube tester, altec service?

[LowOhms]

Magazines regularly post creampuff reviews in the hope of getting an ad down the road. Done all the time.

What ever you want to believe is FINE with me !!

Low Ohms

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According to Mr Faker on a post he made over on Audio Asylum, he got rid of his test gear, all of his o-scopes and such. Now he tunes by ear!
Not once in my life have I heard of any audio engineer not doing comprehensive testing on amps. Many times there are parasitic oscillations way out of the hearing range and they must be brought under control. How do you test for distortions? This is not something that is done by "ear".
If his amps are any good at all, than I would have to surmise that he is pulling everyone's leg with his BS. Many of his post wind up like yours do here Jeff, with people presenting facts to him and he just ignores them.
I'm beginning to think more and more that you are just a troll.

BillWojo

LOL.

FYI, I know the amps and circuit were previously tested at a major University's EE lab, and it did really superb, among the best the Lab had ever seen or measured. How else could Mr. Fraker have garnered those reviews, glowing, from Stephaen Harrell of Six Moons in 2005, here :



6moons.com - industry features: Rocky Mountain Audio Fest 2005




and from Herb Reichert - Stereophile in 2016.

People can readily discern for themselves, from whence people come, and how smart and / or experienced they are, and WHO they should pay attention to. Who tells the truth, and who does not.

" Our doubts are traitors, that often make us lose the good we would gain, by fearing to attempt. "

Its not his credentials we need to worry about, its YOURS with the posts you make-up here.

Dennis is much smarter than I, he does not engage himself in useless conversations, with certain types of people in this world. They are simply not the intended audience, nor worthy of one's concern.

I am seriously thinking of doing the same !!!



Low Ohms.

[Phil-G]

blah blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah. blah, Blahblah blahhah blah blah.


Dennis is much smarter than I, he does not engage himself in useless conversations, (much like the one I've perpetrated here) with certain types of people in this world. They are simply not the intended audience, nor worthy of one's concern.


I am seriously thinking of doing the same !!!



Low Ohms.

no jeff. please don't leave us in peace, I mean't darkness

[LowOhms]

no jeff. please don't leave us in peace, I mean't darkness

When you write " I mean't darkness " that shows me two things:

(1) You over-react .........to a simple post on testing tubes, and, worst of all - you are capable of wishing people harm - over such minor topics and things.

(2) You are LIMITED in your knowledge, as far as even knowing how to spell properly

The is NO apostrophe needed between the "n" and the "t" as you posted it. Correct that, it is " meant " AND NOT " mean't " !!

Now, I am done here.

Have fun, say what you want, even if it has NO relationship to reality and / or audio. Spew forth guys - on and on.

Say I - The Emperor has no Clothes !!

Low Ohms..........Jeff Medwin

[Phil-G]

OK then.
so can we get a little moderation action here, we need a little cleanup on aisle 3. Someone puked all over this thread.

[endeeinn]

LOL.

FYI, I know the amps and circuit were previously tested at a major University's EE lab, and it did really superb, among the best the Lab had ever seen or measured. How else could Mr. Fraker have garnered those reviews, glowing, from Stephaen Harrell of Six Moons in 2005, here :

6moons.com - industry features: Rocky Mountain Audio Fest 2005


and from Herb Reichert - Stereophile in 2016.
Low Ohms.

Most all of your recommendations are subjective (including the six moon review) in nature which are very difficult if not impossible to refute and are the subject of much of the skepticism here and yet at the moment you have objective data (proof?) in the form of a "major university's EE Lab" you fail to name the university or present the data. Now I'm sure you can understand the reluctance to accept on face value your subjective opinion of what is best and in particular best for all. Your opinions (and they are just that) of what you think is best may not match the opinion or others listening to the same system as we all knowingly or unknowingly focus or listen to different factors based on our backgrounds. As a weekend musican for 30+ years and product of a musical family, I hear/focus on different aspects of the listening experience than others. What I hear may not be what you hear (not implying either is right, wrong or better, just different). I haven't seen the Reichert Stereophile article so I can't comment except to say that Stereophile ratings seem to correlate with the price of the gear being tested on the perceived quality of the build components .

To help prove your position .... name the university and produce the data and you will create some credibility. By the way, all your previous posts have stated that data means nothing when evaluating gear so which is it? You can't have it both ways ... or will you admit that there should be correlation between subjective and objective conclusions?

John

[Old Guy]

I wish Jeff well, and hope he finds a group he's happy in. I have my doubts, due to the constant offending nature of his posts.
He cries let the user decide, all the while trying to decide for them that his posts are extremely valuable.

As has been posted terms like "major university" are useless for verification. The only place you see terminology like that is internet memes full of half truths, those are done deliberately so you can not check the source.

The users here did decide.

He really wants to promote the career of his "mentor". But like a religious zealot he can't comprehend his religion isn't suited for all.

If he is still reading I suggest he start his own group, and attract like minded folks instead of trying to force his beliefs on others. This has never been an overly intellectual audio group, and many of us settled here because of that.

This group has an agenda. It's Altec products, not random audio experiments with no provable data.


There probably bits of truth there, there are benefits to a microphonic test on tubes. But it doesn't have to be done his way. That's where he and I part company. I would never insist anyone do it my way.

There are lots of paths in audio...and as we are all different our paths are all different. We don't all want the same things. No one should insist others follow his path. None of the major manufacturers build just one kind of speaker.

No one should ever insist they have the absolute best in methodology. There are many bankrupt brand names in audio because they did just that. Sharing information is much different from a PT Barnum promotion of your own or someone else's ideas. I hope we can share and leave the promotion at home.

[BillWojo]

Jeff, why are you mocking Phil? No need for personal attacks on here. I'm more of a technical guy myself so sometimes my spelling or choice of words could be better but it is what it is.
I find that extremely interesting that Mr Faker could design an amp without any test equipment and yet it passes with such high marks at a university test lab. I would suggest that he start playing the lottery.
And yes, although you dislike any form of testing or electrical engineering information or documentation I still would like to see the results of that study. I would like to see the results of that test, who did the test and how it was done. Without that information I can't believe that what you said is true.
No need to quote me and give me your blah, blah blah............Give me facts backed up with proof.

BillWojo

[LowOhms]

Jeff, why are you mocking Phil? No need for personal attacks on here. I'm more of a technical guy myself so sometimes my spelling or choice of words could be better but it is what it is.
I find that extremely interesting that Mr Faker could design an amp without any test equipment and yet it passes with such high marks at a university test lab. I would suggest that he start playing the lottery.
And yes, although you dislike any form of testing or electrical engineering information or documentation I still would like to see the results of that study. I would like to see the results of that test, who did the test and how it was done. Without that information I can't believe that what you said is true.
No need to quote me and give me your blah, blah blah............Give me facts backed up with proof.

BillWojo

Bill,

The name is Dennis Fraker, not Faker.

How would YOU feel if I constantly wrote of you as .... Bill DoDo???

I have known Mr. Fraker for over three decades now. He owned, at various times, lots of test equipment, and many tube testers also.

The EE Department was at Montana State University.

Neither Dennis, or I , have ANY results to show you, because, a number of years ago, his rural home, hi fi, etc., was totally destroyed by a fast-moving Montana wildfire.

So, having known Dennis for three decades, 30 years experience with the guy, and knowing what TYPE of person he is, I can and do take his word on this testing. He never mentions the MSU testing in public, because he is smarter than I, and, to avoid a situation like this.

As for me, Billl, I don't tell lies or half-truths, so it is very insulting to me to be doubted.

As of about September 2015, I made a major change in my life, the most important improvement / change possible for an individual to make, and you can take what I say as being 100% correct, according to my best knowledge.

Todd knows what change it is. My close friends do also. Ask him, or any of them.

If you must, fly to MSU and see if they still have the old data. Recall, it was 1989 when he developed the design.

It would be more productive to fly to Livingston ( Dennis' new home, housing GPA 604 MLTLs - on his old property ) or Denver ( RMAF ) and see if you like with what you hear. If Denver, you will have maybe 250 choices to hear, this up-coming October 2017 weekend.

The best bang for the dollar, in 2A3s, is easily ( IMHO, ....OG's influence positive ) the JJ 2A3-40. No need, don't waste money buying matched pairs for a SET amp !! However, that cheap old used Chinese amp you bought Bill, won't ever do the job. Its served its purpose, you got a little taste, far removed from what is possible with YOUR hands.

If you ever ask me, I will help you Bill with an amp on a DIY basis.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, ............................and not, in the recipe on file !!

Your sincere audio friend, from Trenton,

Jeff Medwin

[endeeinn]

Bill,



The EE Department was at Montana State University.

Neither Dennis, or I , have ANY results to show you, because, a number of years ago, his rural home, hi fi, etc., was totally destroyed by a fast-moving Montana wildfire.

He never mentions the MSU testing in public, because he is smarter than I, and, to avoid a situation like this.

If you must, fly to MSU and see if they still have the old data. Recall, it was 1989 when he developed the design.


Jeff Medwin

Wait..your telling me that the test results that show his amp was the best ever was destroyed in a fire and he doesn't mention the fire to avoid situations like this (I assume questioning the fact that there is no supporting data), however, he lives in Montana and the results are still available and MSU but he doesn't bother to get/request another copy that would support his product that he 's selling? Doesn't pass the smell test .... no in fact it does smell like something found in a stock yard.

Bye the way if wire lengths of 57" or whatever inches are best, and GTO caps are the best for use in amps..how does Mr Fraker fit all of that in that amp he has pictured on his website where the posting of the MSU data would be of great benefit sales of his products?

Show me the beef and I'm with you.

John

[LowOhms]

Wait..your telling me that the test results that show his amp was the best ever was destroyed in a fire and he doesn't mention the fire to avoid situations like this (I assume questioning the fact that there is no supporting data), however, he lives in Montana and the results are still available and MSU but he doesn't bother to get/request another copy that would support his product that he 's selling? Doesn't pass the smell test .... no in fact it does smell like something found in a stock yard.

Bye the way if wire lengths of 57" or whatever inches are best, and GTO caps are the best for use in amps..how does Mr Fraker fit all of that in that amp he has pictured on his website where the posting of the MSU data would be of great benefit sales of his products?

Show me the beef and I'm with you.

John

Mr Fraker does NOT use GTO caps, to my knowledge, yet - in his amps or speakers, as of TODAY. He has not heard them.

I am possibly / probably, the first person in the USA to use GTOs in SET DHT audio amps and ALTEC speakers, April 2016. In January 2017, I started to share it with close audio friends. We got our supply form the Netherlands !!

Mr Fulton's basic length, determined from the University consultancy work he did with high frequency testing of baboons, was 57 1/8th inches. In his audio products, for shorter lengths, when possible, he would use DIVISORS such as 28 1/2 inches, 14 1/4 inches, 7 1/2 inches. 'Got that ??!! Good.

You need to do some more, ( a little bit more ), homework.

I agree with you about the Six Moons review being entirely subjective. I think the reviewer built GPA 604 MLTLS for himself, as primary speakers, after coming home from Dennis' 2005 demo. A guess.........

For your extra homework, please, I would like you to read what Herb Reichert wrote in Stereophile. That is in another earlier and different thread, but I will repost the URLs for you personally to easily find, herein :


RMAF 2016: Sunday at the Show with Herb | Stereophile.com

( Start after ELAC, with photo of red amps ).... and

here, ( after the darker headline , FAVORITE ROOMS ) Third Paragraph. It reads LOVELY.

RMAF 2016: An Assessment | Stereophile.com



If I were to take a wild guess John, you seem International, maybe Swedish, just a GUESS. If I am wrong, and you live in the USA, please DO come to RMAF 2017 October 6-8th weekend, and visit us, along with all the other 200+ exhibitors. . Its HARD for anyone to tell " on a Forum ", what something " sounds like."

YOU need to be the judge, no old EE papers from MSU needed, use your senses, especially if you are a musician. Dennis tells me his latest 2017 builds are slightly improved over the 2016 show amps, and I would believe him and trust his aural judgement 100%.

I must give one warning. The Serious Stereo contingent is VERY SMALL, and short-handed to set up for such a show, so it does not always " come off " near optimum in the room. 2016 was " pretty good " IMHO, very neutral, and some years have been superb, some have been only fair IMHO.

BUT, I am going, volunteering to help this year as I have the past 11, and I will do my best ( arriving a day early ) to help Dennis and his Brother Brian unload their truck and set up the room, under Dennis' direction. We three guys are all getting older, and the shows, with LIMITED time, are hard on us, and it can be, and sometimes it is " hit and miss ". This is not a cop out, just the facts of real-life audio displaying at a temporary venue.

So, what country do you live in ??

Best wishes.

Low Ohms...... Jeff Medwin

- - - Updated - - -

I wish Jeff well, and hope he finds a group he's happy in. I have my doubts, due to the constant offending nature of his posts.
He cries let the user decide, all the while trying to decide for them that his posts are extremely valuable.

As has been posted terms like "major university" are useless for verification. The only place you see terminology like that is internet memes full of half truths, those are done deliberately so you can not check the source.

The users here did decide.

He really wants to promote the career of his "mentor". But like a religious zealot he can't comprehend his religion isn't suited for all.

If he is still reading I suggest he start his own group, and attract like minded folks instead of trying to force his beliefs on others. This has never been an overly intellectual audio group, and many of us settled here because of that.

This group has an agenda. It's Altec products, not random audio experiments with no provable data.


There probably bits of truth there, there are benefits to a microphonic test on tubes. But it doesn't have to be done his way. That's where he and I part company. I would never insist anyone do it my way.

There are lots of paths in audio...and as we are all different our paths are all different. We don't all want the same things. No one should insist others follow his path. None of the major manufacturers build just one kind of speaker.

No one should ever insist they have the absolute best in methodology. There are many bankrupt brand names in audio because they did just that. Sharing information is much different from a PT Barnum promotion of your own or someone else's ideas. I hope we can share and leave the promotion at home.

Nicely written OG. Impressive. Bravo.

But there is one flaw in your thought process.

No one can decide anything from reading a Forum, and KNOW what it sounds like. They have to go out and HEAR it !!! Then they know !!

I am sure you will agree.

Maybe one day we will meet.

You are nicer when not degrading another person, and SO am I.

I try hard, but its easy for me and my personality, and background, to come off wrong.

Thanks.

Jeff