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Thread: Hiraga A5 crossovers - 1st hand listening experience sought

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    Senior Hostboard Member SD-50's Avatar
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    Re: Hiraga A5 crossovers - 1st hand listening experience sou

    Take a look at this site, Jeff has a pair A7s and A5s, plenty of experimenting with XOs. Not sure but I think Jeff is looking into Hiriga XOs.
    “I said it must be Sunday ’cause ev’rybody’s tellin’ the truth …” – Jeff's Place
    Here as well. ♫ A5 VOTT System – Jeff's Place

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    Hostboard Member KBergsson's Avatar
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    Re: Hiraga A5 crossovers - 1st hand listening experience sou

    Hi I have A5s with 1505 horns (8 ohm drivers) and have Hirage inspired crossovers. They did not sound bad, althougt I chose to use Werner Jagusch crossovers. The WG crossovers are simple first order crossovers using autoformer to attenuate the top. I like them more than the Hiraga inspired. But could live with both. I was also most happy with WG xo's on my 604-8Gs.
    Regards
    Kjartan

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    Re: Hiraga A5 crossovers - 1st hand listening experience sou

    Quote Originally Posted by kbergsson View Post
    simple first order crossovers using autoformer
    +1

    gm
    Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.

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    Junior Hostboard Member BigScottinVA's Avatar
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    Re: Hiraga A5 crossovers - 1st hand listening experience sou

    Hi guys - I built them years ago with pretty good components including flat wire inductors and some oil caps.
    Went from a N500F to the Hiraga's, so the improvement was immense. It really attenuates the mids compared to the N500's, DUH!!!! But allows enough HF program material at the limits of the 288's allowing me to live with them in the two way config. Would I like another 2-3K in HF extension, you bet! But overall, with exception some delicate HF sounds, the +'s outweigh the -"s IMHO :-)
    Makes A5's very listenable at all levels.

    I have original 1979 A5's with:
    1505B
    288H
    515C
    828C
    N500F

    Cheers!

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    Senior Hostboard Member endeeinn's Avatar
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    Re: Hiraga A5 crossovers - 1st hand listening experience sou

    Quote Originally Posted by KBergsson View Post
    Hi I have A5s with 1505 horns (8 ohm drivers) and have Hirage inspired crossovers. They did not sound bad, althougt I chose to use Werner Jagusch crossovers. The WG crossovers are simple first order crossovers using autoformer to attenuate the top. I like them more than the Hiraga inspired. But could live with both. I was also most happy with WG xo's on my 604-8Gs.
    Regards
    Kjartan
    I believe the Hiraga crossed at 500hz and they were 2nd order crossovers. What is your crossover frequency for the 1st order crossovers?

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    Senior Hostboard Member Panomaniac's Avatar
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    Re: Hiraga A5 crossovers - 1st hand listening experience sou

    Sorry I missed this thread. Yes, I helped build the originals and used them as a ?Hi-Fi? PA for awhile in France. Alas I do not remember the original crossover, as Mr Hiraga built it. It later became a reference speaker In Europe.

    A few years ago I built my own A5 system and tried to use the published crossover. To be blunt, it sucked. IThe published crossover sounded nothing like what we had in France so I don?t understand where the schematic comes from. I had to start from scratch and build my own, which was nothing like the published version. I did a passive and an active version.

    Cheers. Pano

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    Junior Hostboard Member lokie's Avatar
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    Re: Hiraga A5 crossovers - 1st hand listening experience sou

    Pano to the rescue! I knew something was amiss w those xovers.

    I forget who told me that your VOTT's were sensational and imaged like nothing he heard before or after.

    I still kick myself for not buying those when you moved to Hawaii. I live in north GA, so, not far from where you lived.

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    Re: Hiraga A5 crossovers - 1st hand listening experience sou

    Quote Originally Posted by Panomaniac View Post
    Sorry I missed this thread. Yes, I helped build the originals and used them as a ?Hi-Fi? PA for awhile in France. Alas I do not remember the original crossover, as Mr Hiraga built it. It later became a reference speaker In Europe.

    A few years ago I built my own A5 system and tried to use the published crossover. To be blunt, it sucked. IThe published crossover sounded nothing like what we had in France so I don?t understand where the schematic comes from. I had to start from scratch and build my own, which was nothing like the published version. I did a passive and an active version.

    Cheers. Pano
    Pano
    Thank you and thank God I didn?t spend much dough on them. I m going to disassemble the set I built and reuse the parts.
    Can you share the specs on what you end up building? What order, slopes, etc and if you built in any eq?

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    Senior Hostboard Member Panomaniac's Avatar
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    Re: Hiraga A5 crossovers - 1st hand listening experience sou

    Hey, glad I could be of some help.


    This one was a big puzzle for me, I could mot understand why the published crossover sounded nothing like what we had in Paris. The Paris A5 was the most natural speaker I've ever heard. At the time I spent a LOT of my waking hours listening to non-amplified music, often 2 rehearsals and a concert per day and no recorded music. The Hiraga A5 really nailed it, it sounded just real musicians playing real instruments. No hint of "speaker sound" - which it pretty amazing. I wasn't the biggest, most bad-ass speaker system I'd heard, just the most amazingly natural.

    I think I published my crossover somewhere on this forum, but there it is again.
    NOTE: Important. This is for 8 ohm WOOFER and 16 ohm 288 HORN. You would need to scale the components to fit your drivers. If using an 8 ohm compression driver, double the inductor values, half the capacitors. Resistors stay the same. The woofer is a 3rd order low pass at 540 Hz , the horn is a 2nd order high pass circa 600 Hz, 12dbB attenuation and a top end roll-off. Acoustically the crossover was basically 3rd order at 700-750 Hz. I'd have to double check that.

    Also note that this is a 3 way, which is how our A5 was normally used. Mr Hiraga liked the tweeter addition, I did not like it and often would not connect it. There was no low pass on the big horn on the Hiraga version, it played as high as the Westrex drivers could. My crossover seen here has a 0.5mH series inductor to better match my 288 drivers to the Fane bullet tweeters I used. You can omit that inductor if you like, but you'll need to boost the top end of the 288 if you have no tweeter. This should give you a good start, but it will need to be tuned to your room and your drivers. That's important.

    Sorry about the small fuzzy image, this board converts everything to small, blurry jpegs.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Senior Hostboard Member gdmoore28's Avatar
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    Re: Hiraga A5 crossovers - 1st hand listening experience sou

    Pano,

    Thanks for giving us the schematic for your current crossover. Your comments on the Hiraga network schematic widely available on the internet are going to be very helpful to anybody considering those plans.

    I'm not good enough at reading schematics to tell for myself, so if I may, a couple of questions regarding your current network:

    - Is there any mid range attenuation built in, and, if so, which frequency range is cut and what is the average attenuation?

    - At approximately which frequency are you crossing to your Fane super tweeter horn?

    I just finished an Altec build (416/802D/511B) and added a Beyma CP21/F slot super horn for UHF. I used a textbook second order 2-way network, followed by the Altec 30923 horn eq network for the 802D, then brought the Beyma horn tweet in at about 10kHz with a simple first order network. The combination has been delicious, but I'm always looking for ways to improve.

    GeeDeeEmm

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