WHITHER THE VINE?????????

[joh69]

Did anyone get the email from cybersites????
Dear Vines Member,

Cybersites launched TheVinesNetwork was launched last August as a next-
generation "self-organizing" content site. As Jon Katz wrote in April's
"Yahoo! Internet Life", at TheVines you can "...experience a new kind of
bottom-up media in which readers and users--not just editors and producers-
-set the agenda... Check out the VinesNetwork [thevines.com]. These sites
can't become elitist or disconnected from their readers, since their
readers are defining and participating in content--a revolutionary change
in media..."

We at CyberSites are very proud of what you, our customer, have built here
at the Vines and we are making every effort to continue to provide you
with the platform to keep building the Vines, a "revolutionary change in
media...".

However, Internet companies are struggling for their very survival these
days and CyberSites is no different. The operator of the Vines Network
currently faces tremendous financial challenges that require it to pursue
a dramatic financial restructuring or sale of the Company, the outcome of
which is uncertain. This period of financial market illiquidity presents
the company with its greatest challenge since its inception as the
developer of SPQR in 1995.

For the foreseeable future, CyberSites will discontinue syndicating
content, making payments to authors and member referrers for their efforts,
providing customer service and distributing newsletters. We intend to
perform some major site maintenance in the immediate future that could
result in some site downtime. We intend to maintain all other site
functionality after this site maintenance is performed. If we are
successful in selling or restructuring the company, it is our intent to
resume all of the discontinued activities described above. We realize
that this is a major inconvenience to our customers, but we hope that you
will continue to make the Vines the unique forum it is during this
difficult time for the company.

If any of you know of anyone that may be interested in investing in
CyberSites, we would be delighted to discuss the possibility and
conditions of such an investment, please contact us at
[email protected]. In the meantime, we urge you to continue
to read, write, and discuss at TheVines because your presence and
participation are essential to the site's health and longevity. We thank
you for your support and we'll see you OnVine!

TheVineNetwork Team.
http://www.thevines.com

[fanuilhgkar]

Translation:

"Having ignored the warning signs and dissatisfaction expressed by our members regarding our decision to change the format, design, practices and content of the SciFi Vine, which was working just fine the old way, we now find ourselves up the proverbial unsanitary tributary with no means of propulsion. So sorry. Please send money."

[joh69]

WOO HOO
GREAT TRANSLATION

[ianviking]

Thanks for posting the e-mail, I'd deleted it from my mailboxes without reading it.

[ProfCrash]

It means that people have lost their jobs and that Vines 2 could be going the way of Vines 1. Which is a sad thing. I may not like Vines 2 but I do like alot of the folks who worked for Cybersites and I am sorry to say their dream fail.

[fanuilhgkar]

The worst part is that the dream didn't have to fail. If the PTB had listened to their customer base, they wouldn't be in this situation. And the folks who lost their jobs didn't get a vote, either.

[ProfCrash]

Sorry but I have to disagree. Community based sites do not make money and in the end, Cybersites is a buisiness that has to answer to the investors. They have to find a way of making a profit.

Using common sense lets take a look when all this started to happen. The code changes (ie the introduction of the Movie Vine) was soon after tech stocks took a beating on the market. Investors in internet based companies were skittish, all you had to do was follow the news and read the papers to know this. Why would they invest in a community based site that was not going to make money like Cybersites? Something had to be changed.

I did not like the changes, I am not in the minority here and I know that, but that does not mean I do not understand the reasons for the changes. Their customer base was not going to pay the bills. Lets face it, patronages were not going to keep the company open. There were not that many Patrons and the overall cost of a patronage was low. Internet Advertising does not work so selling ad space was not going to bring in the bucks.

Cybersites is a business, it was in a market that was not profitable, something had to change. We can all talk about how they angered their customer base but if the customer base is unable to provide enough money to keep the business afloat then the customer base really does not have alot of influence.

Guess what, we didn't have alot of influence. That angered us, myself included, but the fact is I know why we didn't have alot of influence and I do not begrudge the business model that tells Cybersites that.

When it gets down to it, Cybersites handeled things 1,000 times better then pathfinder did. They told us that the new Vines were coming, they showed them to us, made some changes (not enough to win those of us here over but they did make changes), and gave us a reasonable amout of time to save materials from the original Vines.

Was I angry and sad when Vines 1 closed. Yup. Am in the least bit happy that Cybersites as a whole might be going under? No. Because for the most part the folks at Cybersites treated us with respect. They did not give us what we want, Vines 1 with new coding that worked, but the reality is we never gave them the financial support needed to influence them.

I admit I am biased because I worked witht he folks at Cybersites for a long time. Some I really admire and respect, some I liked, some I tolerated, and some I despised. That is normal for any work environment I think. When I saw that things were changing to place an emphasis I left the company, I could not support that platform for a long list of reasons that everyone here is familiar with. That does not mean that I ever wished ill will on TPTB only that I would not support them in this new endevor.

Pathfinder changed software for no explained reason and did little or nothing to try and explain how to use the ne programs. That was bad. Cybersites changed platforms for real reasons, technical and financial, that I can understand. They made an attempt to explain how to use the new environment. There is a big difference here which I feel is important to acknowledge.

[MerleZ]

Thanks for saying that, Crash. You said if far better than I ever could have.

[AsIs]

Ditto. Well said Crash.

I understand being upset that the boards are gone or soon to be gone. But please try to remember gang, it is easier for us to find another board than many of the employees finding jobs in the current market.

I personally know the founders of CSI and they are good people. I don't agree with how they handled everything, but the truth is that they tried. And their intentions were good. Over time new people came in and were put in positions to run day to day things. They didn't have the same relationship with the posters and so some things changed. The founders are still good decent people. And I am sad that something that they and all of us put so much energy in, is going away.

Right now, they are doing everything that they can to try to keep the boards up. It would be easier to just shut them down. But they are trying and even at this late date, that counts for something in my book. They don't want to lose it anymore than we do. But the financial realities are realities.

The only boards that will likely stay up in the near to distant future are those that are run by people not looking to turn a profit or use it as thier income. Communities just don't make money yet. Hopefully someday they will. The internet is still very young, it has many more changes to go thru.

This board was started as a gathering place to have fun and hang out together. It is whatever we make it as long as it is here. But at it's essence I still want it to be a fun hangout. Discuss TV shows, movies, watering the garden, etc.

[absom4]

I'm indebted to you two for explaining things that way. I have a whole new understanding of the problems faced by the PTB at the Vines. Losing our base was similar to a death in the family. The sorrow just got upstaged by anger at our loss.

It's a bloody shame, but we seem to have been way ahead of today's technology. As the girls so aptly put it, it was just not financially viable.

In a way it's like having tried on a diamond bracelet and then taking it off because it was equal in cost to a lifetime's work. Ah well, at least we wore it for a little while.