Explaination.....

My topic the other day entitled Bi-polar stated what the disorder was and the some examples of it or traits. I encouraged everyone to study Bi-Polar disease for themselves. First response came from who other than 82abn.. he said I stated wht the disorder involves.. goes on to say that research has shown that the cause has not been found... Hesaid that people have no control of it. He agrees that prayer is good though.... but he believes that getting medical help is good also. I responded to that by saying I understand that research has not found why it occurs but that is why I am posting it in the first place.. to inform. I agreed that the medical field can help but prayer is very important also and God can defeat this. I did not agree that we have no power to change it. I shared hope that God could change it. Okay here comes Coeburn Cane and he says he does not think anyone that believes in God is going to tell you that God cannot heal people. Then he goes on to make a false comment that I supposly said... here it is....:ijUST THINK IT IS GOING A BIT FAR TO SAY THE REASON WHY gOD CAN HEAL IS BECAUSE THOSE WITH THE DISORDER IS DEMONICALLY POSSESSED.I never said that... where he gets this from I have no idea. Then goes on to ask if Demonic Possession is the reson for disease/ disorder to explain some things... I do not know who he is addressing here.. I never said anything eluding to this. He goes on to ask if we are God fearing why do we get colds... that is easy.. our fleshly body wil get sick.. has nothing to do with being a Chrisitian or not. I never though made any reference to sikness and possession. Then after that I replied and said I never said someone with this disorder is possessed... I only said it could be influenced by demonic spirits.. in reference to isolation, depression, hoplessness.. and so on. I went on to say that I have a cold right now but I am not possessed.Then Cane comes back on and says " that is right myself and others brought up other affirmaties that God has the ability to heal. Then he goes on to say Its not just pigoen-holed in something that Joyce Myer wrote in her book. See he and others brought all this crap up and I am taking the blame for it. I only suggested that peole read Joyce Myers book.. nothing that I have said references her book... what is up with that? They are trying to argue with me about something that I never said nor started.So I have been downed and accused of leading peole asray... but if you will read carefully.. I am being accused wrongly.... I never supported nor did I condone anything about a connection with phsical sickness and demonic spirits.. that was COeburn Cane and others.. that was his own words. Actually they were debating it with me... which I had no idea where it came from because I never mentioned anything like that. I am waiting for an apology.

[the_alienist]

WOW, you actually had to go and post another thread because I called you out on the last one.

No ignorance is greater than that of a religious ZEALOT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the_alienist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW, you actually had to go and post another thread because I called you out on the last one.

No ignorance is greater than that of a religious ZEALOT </div></div>

Where did you call me out I missed it? No I posted this one so everyone could see what was going on and see my side of the story. But you are welcome to join... You are awsome!!!

[CoeburnCane]

An apology for what? That we're sorry you can't see someone else's POV because you're afraid you'll be "convinced" differently or taken astray? That's bull man.

You started out by saying that disorders of the mind are due to demonic influence or possession, and implied that scientists aren't researching something to cure it, but simply labeling a behavior so someone with ADHD, ADD, or Bi-Polar have an excuse. You basically stated that scientists were just doing whatever they wanted and not trying to find a solution to it. Implied that science was an unholy way to fight a disorder.

Allow me to explain something that everyone else got that you simply did NOT get when I put it out there--the gravity reference I made. Let's start with your quote on disorders:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ADHD, Add, Bi- Polar and so on.... years ago you never heard of these did you? We can say 2 things happened here either it took the science department hundreds of years to figure things out or we are just labling behaviors and putting a name on them.</div></div>

Sounded like to me that you were basically calling scientists liars when it came to even naming these disorders when you feel they were demonic influence or possession. So...I retorted:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So let's see...do you think gravity is inspired by good or evil? Or is it just some phenomenon that Newton thought up to scientifically explain something God/Devil controlled by scientific means? I mean, think about it--had we ever heard of gravity before the 1680's? </div></div>

The parallel that everyone else got that you didn't was that you say ADHD/ADD/Bi-Polar was basically made up by scientists. Some would say that gravity itself didn't have a name until Sir Isaac Newton put a name to it. He could have just made it up though. I mean--who is he to go around labeling something he observed that's a natural force driven by God/Devil influences? And remember, you said:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe all things are inspired by good or evil... </div></div>

So who was I to think I should just keep it to your examples and not expand the discussion outward a little bit? I followed what your thought process was, and tried to discuss it on that plane by giving an alternative POV. You said "all things". I didn't know I was held to only what you had mentioned, or that anything was different...but oh yeah, it was off limits because it didn't fit in with your argument.

To sum this up--you say you're not playing the victim card--well, if you're demanding an apology, then that means you're announcing that you feel you've been wronged, and those who feel are wronged by someone else are...guess what...victims!!! You're demanding justice in the form of an apology because you feel I wronged you because I took your arguments apart, piece by piece. Sorry Charlie--no go on the apology, and if you're not going to bring a complete and cohesive discussion point to the table, then either don't bring it at all, or if you do bring it--expect me to show no mercy in pointing out the flaws of it and making you look stupid when you won't give other people's arguments/talking points one simple shred of credence or respect. If you can't fully explain yourself and don't have a true point, it's not my fault nor anyone else's for pointing out the obvious flaws and holes in your theories and you looking like the dummy in the meantime.

I'm done here.

Cane I think it is the complete opposite here...I never implied that Scientists made anything up... where did you get that.. I guess it was your interputation.. not my intentions.Never implied all mental or disorders where possession by the Devil.. that is crazy. All things are inspired by good or evil.. think about it. The apology would be for you and another poster coming up with phsical sickness and demonic possions issues and turned it on me... because I never mentioned that. It is not a matter of who looks stupid here.. I could care less.... I have been made to look stupid in your eyes a lot on here. I do not care... but I am right on this one and you know it.. ha ha aha ha aha ha aha ah/oooooooooohhh ha ha. Lol

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The apology would be for you and another poster coming up with phsical sickness and demonic possions issues and turned it on me... because I never mentioned that.</div></div>

That's right--myself and others did because we were discussing the central point: diseases/disorders as a function of demonic influence or possession. Remember, you opened it up when you said:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe all things are inspired by good or evil... </div></div>

So that made everything or "all things" as you put it fair game to discuss as being a function of demonic influence or possession. Or more to the point, motivated by good or evil.

When you make a vague point and ask for discussion on it, expect things to be brought up that you never mentioned verbatim, but may have implied. Expect everyone to have a different stream of thought on a subject than you, and discuss them as they come--it's all part of the board man. If your undies are in a wad over that, then maybe this board isn't for you.

Once again--stop asking for an apology because I'm not going to apologize for discussing a subject and pointing out flaws in your arguments--it's a discussion board and whether I was an Admin or a Newbie, I would still point out the massive flaws in your argument. If you want someone to apologize to you, you need to tell yourself you're sorry for not being more prepared in your argument and putting one out there that looked like swiss cheese. That's like setting a beach ball on a tee and being upset because a 4-year-old hit it off of there right after you put it there for them to hit.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been made to look stupid in your eyes a lot on here. I do not care... but I am right on this one and you know it.. ha ha aha ha aha ha aha ah/oooooooooohhh ha ha. Lol </div></div>

Not just in my eyes but about 90% of the people who read your unbased drivel realize that you're making yourself look like a fool that's regurgitating what a televangelist said on TV 5 minutes ago. As for the maniacal laughter--you're kookier than I once thought. I don't use this term a lot, but you're coming across as a major whackjob man. You need some help. You're out there on some uncharted planet that even Heaven's Gate hasn't found from their spaceship yet.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The apology would be for you and another poster coming up with phsical sickness and demonic possions issues and turned it on me... because I never mentioned that.</div></div>

That's right--myself and others did because we were discussing the central point: diseases/disorders as a function of demonic influence or possession. Remember, you opened it up when you said:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe all things are inspired by good or evil... </div></div>

So that made everything or "all things" as you put it fair game to discuss as being a function of demonic influence or possession. Or more to the point, motivated by good or evil.

When you make a vague point and ask for discussion on it, expect things to be brought up that you never mentioned verbatim, but may have implied. Expect everyone to have a different stream of thought on a subject than you, and discuss them as they come--it's all part of the board man. If your undies are in a wad over that, then maybe this board isn't for you.

Once again--stop asking for an apology because I'm not going to apologize for discussing a subject and pointing out flaws in your arguments--it's a discussion board and whether I was an Admin or a Newbie, I would still point out the massive flaws in your argument. If you want someone to apologize to you, you need to tell yourself you're sorry for not being more prepared in your argument and putting one out there that looked like swiss cheese. That's like setting a beach ball on a tee and being upset because a 4-year-old hit it off of there right after you put it there for them to hit.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been made to look stupid in your eyes a lot on here. I do not care... but I am right on this one and you know it.. ha ha aha ha aha ha aha ah/oooooooooohhh ha ha. Lol </div></div>

Not just in my eyes but about 90% of the people who read your unbased drivel realize that you're making yourself look like a fool that's regurgitating what a televangelist said on TV 5 minutes ago. As for the maniacal laughter--you're kookier than I once thought. I don't use this term a lot, but you're coming across as a major whackjob man. You need some help. You're out there on some uncharted planet that even Heaven's Gate hasn't found from their spaceship yet. </div></div>

Correct.. you all brought it up and that is fine.. I do not care what you discuss that is not the problem.. the problem is this: You and others tried to present it off as though I was debating it... I NEVER WANTED TO DEBATE THAT. Okay when I say I believe all things are inspired by good or evil.. this is what is meant... let us use phsical sickness as an example. It does not come from God... It comes because Adam and Eve fell in the garden... so evil was allowed because of sin. So sickness is because of the fall of man... I hope you can get that... I tried my best.I never made a vague point... I said "Does anybody think the 911 attacks or the VT shooting was motivated by the enemy".. that is pretty self- explanitory is it not? It is okay that everyone has different thoughts.. but when in the posts it is made to look like I support what you all are saying is the problem. My undies are not in a wad... it seems like everytime I post something I am threatened to be banned or it is not for me... I thought we could discuss our points.. each of us. Okay you do not have to apologize... that is okay..I thought I was pretty prepared though... I had the evidence to back me up. Maybe the 90% are influenced by you and a handful of others.. like I said I only get hate posts like this from you and a few otheres no one else... I get pm's telling me they enjoy my posts. I have never been called a whackjob before... Seems like you are the one that cannot handle a civil conversation... without getting your feathers ruffled. I have not been mad through all of our conversations. I do not understand what the problem is... It has already been proved that I DO NOT SAY ANYTHING TO CONSTITUTE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING NOW...So maybe we should just leave this one alone.. we win some and we lose some... I will take defeat this time and let you be the winner.

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Correct.. you all brought it up and that is fine.. I do not care what you discuss that is not the problem.. the problem is this: You and others tried to present it off as though I was debating it... I NEVER WANTED TO DEBATE THAT.</div></div>

That's the problem man--you never want to debate anything peripheral to the main point that's still related to it--you want your points and your points only to be spoken to. That's an unrealistic expectation of myself and other posters on here, to be limited in a conversation on anything to only your POV. I hope you understand that.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay when I say I believe all things are inspired by good or evil.. this is what is meant... let us use phsical sickness as an example. It does not come from God... It comes because Adam and Eve fell in the garden... so evil was allowed because of sin. So sickness is because of the fall of man... I hope you can get that... </div></div>

I got it a LONG time ago and explained my point on it thoroughly. You apparently didn't read it from the original thread this all started on:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However--if you want to look at diseases--track it back to the Garden. When the devil tempted Eve into taking of the tree of life and eating the fruit, and then Eve gave the fruit to Adam...that intrinsically made all of us innately depraved. (NOTE--this is if we're tracing things back from the beginning of the Bible.)

Now--if you take the concept of innate depravity and expand it out a little bit--it basically means born of sin, and perfection cannot exist in the presence of sin, so thusly--we are imperfect beings from the start.

Since we are imperfect beings, our bodies aren't going to stay healthy due to environmental factors created by our own free will, choices we've made to pollute and royally screw up our earth from what God intended for it to be. I feel that a bit of Darwinism will tell us that the more imperfect beings breed with each other and have offspring, the more that we will all be susceptible to disease.

So it's not demonic possession--it's more likely a function of an increase in biomedical knowledge along with the continual creation of increasingly genetically imperfect offspring.</div></div>

So there you go. We said almost the same exact thing w/a little bit of a different slant of logic to get there, but I'm attacking your ideas as 100% false and I'm out to get you.

Right.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought we could discuss our points.. each of us. Okay you do not have to apologize... that is okay..I thought I was pretty prepared though... I had the evidence to back me up. Maybe the 90% are influenced by you and a handful of others.. like I said I only get hate posts like this from you and a few otheres no one else...</div></div>

Still playing that victim role huh? Yeah. So now, I PM people daily telling you that they should gang up on you and tell you that you're nuts and that they should dog you out for your posts. I do it on purpose because I don't like you. Sure. Your conspiracy theory on that is amusing, but I'd say I get more PM's complaining about your lack of respect for someone else's opinion on here when they're trying to discuss a subject you brought up than you have ever or will ever get praising you for your posts. Ever wonder why no one responded to your initial post in that initial thread, and you had to respond to it yourself? It's because we've removed more people than I can count from the Religion forum by their request because they don't want to deal with you on these subjects. Not because they're intimidated by your knowledge, but because your idea is the only idea and their idea is blasphemous or anti-religious--when it's in reality only their opinion. You condescend others thoughts way too easily. Not all the time mind you, but when it comes down to where you feel you're being attacked or being made to look dumb, you hit that holier-than-thou button and turn off the other person/people in the conversation from even responding.

Scully and Mulder called for you. Something about "the truth is out there", or something?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Correct.. you all brought it up and that is fine.. I do not care what you discuss that is not the problem.. the problem is this: You and others tried to present it off as though I was debating it... I NEVER WANTED TO DEBATE THAT.</div></div>

That's the problem man--you never want to debate anything peripheral to the main point that's still related to it--you want your points and your points only to be spoken to. That's an unrealistic expectation of myself and other posters on here, to be limited in a conversation on anything to only your POV. I hope you understand that.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay when I say I believe all things are inspired by good or evil.. this is what is meant... let us use phsical sickness as an example. It does not come from God... It comes because Adam and Eve fell in the garden... so evil was allowed because of sin. So sickness is because of the fall of man... I hope you can get that... </div></div>

I got it a LONG time ago and explained my point on it thoroughly. You apparently didn't read it from the original thread this all started on:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However--if you want to look at diseases--track it back to the Garden. When the devil tempted Eve into taking of the tree of life and eating the fruit, and then Eve gave the fruit to Adam...that intrinsically made all of us innately depraved. (NOTE--this is if we're tracing things back from the beginning of the Bible.)

Now--if you take the concept of innate depravity and expand it out a little bit--it basically means born of sin, and perfection cannot exist in the presence of sin, so thusly--we are imperfect beings from the start.

Since we are imperfect beings, our bodies aren't going to stay healthy due to environmental factors created by our own free will, choices we've made to pollute and royally screw up our earth from what God intended for it to be. I feel that a bit of Darwinism will tell us that the more imperfect beings breed with each other and have offspring, the more that we will all be susceptible to disease.

So it's not demonic possession--it's more likely a function of an increase in biomedical knowledge along with the continual creation of increasingly genetically imperfect offspring.</div></div>

So there you go. We said almost the same exact thing w/a little bit of a different slant of logic to get there, but I'm attacking your ideas as 100% false and I'm out to get you.

Right.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought we could discuss our points.. each of us. Okay you do not have to apologize... that is okay..I thought I was pretty prepared though... I had the evidence to back me up. Maybe the 90% are influenced by you and a handful of others.. like I said I only get hate posts like this from you and a few otheres no one else...</div></div>

Still playing that victim role huh? Yeah. So now, I PM people daily telling you that they should gang up on you and tell you that you're nuts and that they should dog you out for your posts. I do it on purpose because I don't like you. Sure. Your conspiracy theory on that is amusing, but I'd say I get more PM's complaining about your lack of respect for someone else's opinion on here when they're trying to discuss a subject you brought up than you have ever or will ever get praising you for your posts. Ever wonder why no one responded to your initial post in that initial thread, and you had to respond to it yourself? It's because we've removed more people than I can count from the Religion forum by their request because they don't want to deal with you on these subjects. Not because they're intimidated by your knowledge, but because your idea is the only idea and their idea is blasphemous or anti-religious--when it's in reality only their opinion. You condescend others thoughts way too easily. Not all the time mind you, but when it comes down to where you feel you're being attacked or being made to look dumb, you hit that holier-than-thou button and turn off the other person/people in the conversation from even responding.

Scully and Mulder called for you. Something about "the truth is out there", or something? </div></div>

It is not that I do not desire to debate or discuss anything Peripheral to the main point... all I am saying was Some posts seem to be accusing me of supporting things that I did not say or imply... that is all. I can discuss about anything. I never said you attacked my "original idea"... I am not playing the victim role... I could care less...I do not feel like a victim. Even witht he conversations you and I have I do not take it personal.. really I don't.. I still respect you and your opinions even if they are not my own. Well maybe the reason no one responded to the original post was... I went ahead and gave more info.. on the matter, I do not know the real reason.. maybe they do not like me.. I do not know. I am not holier than thou.. never said I was nor act like I am... I am just a sinner saved by grace.. no better than anyone else. Who is Scully and Mulder?

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who is Scully and Mulder? </div></div>

Click here.