The End Time

[Shooter]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know of any theologian who translates "and the dead in Christ shall rise first" into "Dead in the belief of Christ."</div></div>

First of all, I don't listen to any theologian, I listen to the Holy word god provided for me. Listening to preachers blindly is not what the Lord wanted from us.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Besides that, there will be 144,000 Jews who have been set apart for this period of time, which many theologians believe are set aside to evangelize the world at that time.
</div></div>

Evangilize when? during tribulation after the "rapture"? Why would there be anyone here to evanelize if the Lord has taken all Christians, and withdrawn the Holy Spirit? How could they possibly be saved then?

[imported_ut1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

And you have a great misunderstanding of the parable you quoted. It is entirely about the separation of the saved verses the lost that will happen on Christ's first appearing "the harvest of souls". Again, He is not sending anyone to Hell (He doesn't anyway, as we do that ourselves by choice)on His first appearing. After the rapture, then the Tribulation, and man's last chance for salvation.
</div></div>

I guess you are saying Jesus has a great misunderstanding too because i pretty much quoted exactly what he said...
"Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear." </div></div>

No, as He is talking about the separation of saved/lost.

[imported_ut1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know of any theologian who translates "and the dead in Christ shall rise first" into "Dead in the belief of Christ."</div></div>

First of all, I don't listen to any theologian, I listen to the Holy word god provided for me. Listening to preachers blindly is not what the Lord wanted from us.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


Besides that, there will be 144,000 Jews who have been set apart for this period of time, which many theologians believe are set aside to evangelize the world at that time.
</div></div>

Evangilize when? during tribulation after the "rapture"? Why would there be anyone here to evanelize if the Lord has taken all Christians, and withdrawn the Holy Spirit? How could they possibly be saved then?

</div></div>

Ah, now we're getting to the heart of the matter. Not listen to the anointed of God, the messengers He has called specifically to preach to the world? Listen to them blindly? I've been a Christian for 40 years, and have taught the Bible, by the leadership of the Holy Spirit, for 30 years. I don't blindly listen to anyone BUT the Holy Spirit. That's why you keep your Bible open when listening to preachers, to see if they really are preaching from the Word of God.
If you deny that there will be a great number saved during the Tribulation, then you are denying the very Word of God. How can they possibly be saved? BY THE POWER OF THE MOST HOLY GOD, THAT'S HOW!!

[pvfan]

I think this thread is case in point why it is hard to explain Christianity to people who are not Christians. You have two Christians arguing over the word of God and it ends up with name calling and making fun. Really, is this the way to convert non-Christians? Classic example imo of the many different translations of the Bible, it's pretty much just however you were raised/what church you grew up in. Which is why pretty much I believe if you give your life to the Lord and try to live the best life you can, and help others in the end the Good Lord will take care of you.

[imported_ut1]

You're exactly right, PVFAN, as I should never compare anyone to Pac-man even if the M.O. is the same. My apologies.

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're exactly right, PVFAN, as I should never compare anyone to Pac-man even if the M.O. is the same. My apologies.</div></div>

Shooter isn't Pac-Man. Dude's been on this board for a good while I think, and hasn't had nearly the controversial "M.O." as our dear nutjob friend had. He's not caused any problems that I'm aware of.

Shooter just seems to be making valid points, and drawing off of his own experiences of not "blindly listening & believing theologians". You have different experiences...it leads to friction and disagreement. Take it for what it is, don't try to paint it as something else.

I urge both of you to continue discussing this--it's interesting to see both POV's debated. I thought it was a pretty good thread w/o any major problems until you pulled the Pac-Man card.

Just my $.02.

[Shooter]

OK first off. I'd like to say I haven't called anyone a name...nor will I. Also, i NEVER said what ut1 believes is wrong....he may be right, i may be wrong...in the end, it really doesn;t matter as long as you believe in God.(another subject i'd really like to discuss when im done with this perticular one). I have never started trouble on this board so please dont compare me to someone who does...I apparantly didnt catch that but i will go back and read.

Now back to the discussion at hand...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, as He is talking about the separation of saved/lost. </div></div>

It says right there they will be bound and burned. Sounds like they are goin to hell to me. Because tribulation is over, time to burn the wicked.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you deny that there will be a great number saved during the Tribulation, then you are denying the very Word of God. How can they possibly be saved? BY THE POWER OF THE MOST HOLY GOD, THAT'S HOW!!</div></div>

I never denied once that people would be saved during tribulation...i merely said that there would be NO RAPTURE beforehand. If there was a rapture beforehand, then the Holy Spirit would be withdrawn from the Earth, and taking the very thing that pricks your heart to believe in the Lord. Hence, no way to be saved. I do believe people will be saved during tribulation, because I dont believe in the rapture.
So, I ask again, If the Holy Spirit has been withdrawn from the Earth....how would anyone be saved?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Not listen to the anointed of God, the messengers He has called specifically to preach to the world? </div></div>

So every preacher is annointed by God?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't blindly listen to anyone BUT the Holy Spirit. That's why you keep your Bible open when listening to preachers, to see if they really are preaching from the Word of God. </div></div>

Finally we agree [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[imported_ut1]

"It says right there they will be bound and burned. Sounds like they are goin to hell to me. Because tribulation is over, time to burn the wicked."
Agreed, as no one will be saved after the Tribulation. I've never argued that there would be.

"I never denied once that people would be saved during tribulation...i merely said that there would be NO RAPTURE beforehand."

If there is no Rapture, Revelation is wasted and ineffective as scripture.


"So, I ask again, If the Holy Spirit has been withdrawn from the Earth....how would anyone be saved?"

Maybe the stones will proclaim Him:

37 And as he was now drawing nigh, even at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works which they had seen; 38 saying, Blessed is the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest. 39 And some of the Pharisees from the multitude said unto him, Teacher, rebuke thy disciples. 40 And he answered and said, I tell you that, if these shall hold their peace, the stones will cry out.
Luke 19:37-40 (ASV)

Again, God said there would be a great multitude saved, so that's good enough for me. Don't limit the Holy Spirit to the bodies of believers, as God's Spirit is everywhere (even in Hell!!)

"So every preacher is annointed by God?"

No, and I'll never proclaim that they are, just as not all professing Christians are what they say they are. But there are enough of them out there that are anointed that I would be careful who I claimed was not, since God proclaimed this:
Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
1 Chron 16:22 (KJV)

[1inStripes]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How can anyone be saved during tribulation if the Holy Ghost has been withdrawn from the Earth? </div></div>

Maybe I am misunderstanding the question, but where does it say that the Holy Ghost would be pulled out? Just because those saved, dead and alive, would be called up, does not mean the Holy Ghost would not be present for those who have yet to hear the word.

[imported_ut1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1inStripes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Maybe I am misunderstanding the question, but where does it say that the Holy Ghost would be pulled out? </div></div>

As far as I know, it doesn't. As I said above, God's Spirit is everywhere.