Religion and politics shouldn't mix...

**R13** · November 16th, 2010, 11:33 PM

these guys don't think so. Just thought these were interesting, some of it goes back to what me and a few others have been saying.

People vote like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud7rY...ayer_embedded#

And we get morons like this in Congress...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5yNZ...ayer_embedded#!

**Milk3** · November 17th, 2010, 10:34 AM

Edit: forget it..... discussing anything with you pointless

**R13** · November 17th, 2010, 12:06 PM

You really just don't have an argument when it comes to religion being in politics, it has no place there, at all. Its injected in politics and then injected in our gov., then we get morons in congress like the on in the vid.

**CoeburnCane** · November 17th, 2010, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by R13

You really just don't have an argument when it comes to religion being in politics, it has no place there, at all. Its injected in politics and then injected in our gov., then we get morons in congress like the on in the vid.

Let me frame up this discussion just a little bit.

It's not that people should/shouldn't have a faith to be an elected official, and that they don't lean on that understanding to make day-to-day decisions. It's going to affect it, no matter what people think--it can't help but do so. I don't think anyone is asking for a "Bible check" for election or even impeachment from office. This is still a country of religious freedom--and that includes Christianity too.

The problem a lot of people have with religion/government is opening up the Bible to govern by. If the excuse for global warming not existing is that God said he wouldn't flood the earth again in the Bible, then that's simply not good enough given scientific research and reality. The fallacy in that argument on the part of Rep. Shimkus is that if God sent global warming to destroy us, wouldn't it happen all at once? If you want to believe the story of Noah's Ark is true, then per the Bible--it took 40 days/nights of rain to flood the earth. That's not instantaneous, but it's a whole helluva lot quicker than how slowly global warming/climate change is affecting the earth's environment. If God is as powerful as Shimkus believes, then God could have come up with a better idea than global warming to destroy the earth with. Think it through.

This guy forgets that global warming/climate change is due to man-made problems. It's not a so-called "act of God". Our actions are changing the earth in measurably bad ways, and it's up to us to figure out how to minimize that impact and still sustain our way of life. How do we do that? Not by using the Bible to deny it's existence, but to study the phenomenon of climate change and solve the problems with the brains that, if Shimkus' faith is correct, God gave us. His idea to ignore it b/c of one Bible verse is the equivalent to denying state of the art medical treatment b/c someone still believes that spiritual healers still have one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. I think we'd all agree that's just against all common sense, and if you're religious and believe in God, then part of common sense is knowing when to use that brain that God gave you and make a sound, logical decision.

If people want to use their faith when considering how to vote, I don't have a problem with it. If you feel like praying to God for clarity considering who to vote for, then that's great--go ahead and do that. It's when you start listening to direct approvals of candidates from a website like the one pimped at the end of the first vid R13 posted that you lose all credibility and ability to make an informed decision, or even a divine one, because you're leaning on someone else (read: man) to help you with your decision instead of praying and figuring it out for yourself and your mind/heart/soul.

There are folks who are out there "clinging to faith", for one reason and one reason only--it's a lot easier for them to do that than to critically think about issues and solve them for themselves. It's easier for them to listen to whatever the preacher says and take it as truth than studying and researching their own faith for themselves. It's an intellectual laziness that people get from the assurance that a particular faith or religion is the answer to all their problems. I'm 29 now, and the message I always got from the Bible is that "this is what has happened, now use the brain you were blessed with to remember what you've read and use it going forward to live your life". It's a reminder and a guideline more than it is "God's infalliable word" as some would believe. All the answers aren't in the Bible contrary to popular Christian belief--sometimes you actually *gasp* have to think for yourself.

/rant

**Milk3** · November 17th, 2010, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by R13

You really just don't have an argument when it comes to religion being in politics, it has no place there, at all. Its injected in politics and then injected in our gov., then we get morons in congress like the on in the vid.

You just have so much hate for Christians it's pathetic. I know you're going to come back with some BS response saying you don't but i think everyone on here can see it. It doesn't matter if it has to deal with politics or not you hate them. I got a few questions for you.
Do you believe you are smarter because you are atheist or agnostic?
Do you believe you have a better understanding of the world and a better all around intelligence because of your beliefs?
Do you think if everyone believed the same way you do the world would be a better place?

**R13** · November 17th, 2010, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Milk3

You just have so much hate for Christians it's pathetic. I know you're going to come back with some BS response saying you don't but i think everyone on here can see it. It doesn't matter if it has to deal with politics or not you hate them. I got a few questions for you.
Do you believe you are smarter because you are atheist or agnostic?
Do you believe you have a better understanding of the world and a better all around intelligence because of your beliefs?
Do you think if everyone believed the same way you do the world would be a better place?

Wrong. My whole family is full of them, friends, girlfriends and most around me...asinine to say I hate Christians. I don't like the religion or most religions(excluding buddhism) for that matter. I didn't even say anything about Christianity did I? I said religion.

1)I believe it allows me to be more intelligent because it allows questioning and that's the only way you learn anything, is to question. Only for that reason, not the "I'm better than you" thing you're grasping at. Studies do back me up too...

Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God' - Telegraph

2) Sure do, though that's basically the same question as the first, so the answer is basically the same - questioning will allow you to learn more.

3) Absofuckinglutely I do. Not a doubt in my mind that this world would be drastically better if it weren't for religion.

**Biggin** · November 17th, 2010, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by Milk3

You just have so much hate for Christians it's pathetic. I know you're going to come back with some BS response saying you don't but i think everyone on here can see it. It doesn't matter if it has to deal with politics or not you hate them. I got a few questions for you.
Do you believe you are smarter because you are atheist or agnostic?
Do you believe you have a better understanding of the world and a better all around intelligence because of your beliefs?
Do you think if everyone believed the same way you do the world would be a better place?

I have a couple questions for you, and honesty would be appreciated.

Do you believe you have a better understanding of the world and a better all around intelligence because of your beliefs?
Do you think if everyone believed the same way you do the world would be a better place?

**Milk3** · November 18th, 2010, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Biggin

I have a couple questions for you, and honesty would be appreciated.

Do you believe you have a better understanding of the world and a better all around intelligence because of your beliefs?
Do you think if everyone believed the same way you do the world would be a better place?

Yes. I believe that believe in a religion gives you great understanding of the world. On Earth and in the after life. That's just my opinion.

Yes I do. however i believe that people should believe what they want. Who knows who is really right? I believe I am... that's an opinion not a fact. If I end up wrong? I'll admit it but i don't think i am.

My point in those questions wasn't to be an asshole at all. It was to show that no matter what we believe we all still think the same way. We all think we are right and we have our reason. Does that make any of us wrong? No because it is an opinon. I have no problem with people who believe the way I do. You know that Biggin. I talk to you anytime I see you and think you are an awesome person . Just because people don't believe how I do doesn't mean I look down on them or treat them any different. That's were ALOT of Christian mess up. How can you expect someone to respect you and your beliefs if you don't show them the same respect? It doesn't work. But Alot of Christians don't see it that way.

**Milk3** · November 18th, 2010, 12:22 AM

That reminds me of a situation I was in....... I was playing BB at a church with some people I work with on lunch. We play there all the time. Well one day 2 kids come up and start playing with us. About 15 minutes later a man walks over there and says, " I'm the preacher of this church and the kids that go to the church get all 3 goals to themselves so I need you to leave until they leave." The kids say they want to play with us but he says " I dont care what you want" So i ask him if it will be ok if we play on the far goal from them. He says " I'm pretty sure you don't go to this church so I suggest you leave." Did he really think we would want to go to church there him acting like that? It was ridiculous. So a week later I go to work and see 4 or 5 people that I know for a fact are on drugs BAD playing over there with those same kids. They were cussing and caring on like lunatics was anything said to them? No! I just laughed because that's what that preacher gets.

**R13** · November 18th, 2010, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Milk3

Yes. I believe that believe in a religion gives you great understanding of the world. On Earth and in the after life. That's just my opinion.

Yes I do. however i believe that people should believe what they want. Who knows who is really right? I believe I am... that's an opinion not a fact. If I end up wrong? I'll admit it but i don't think i am.

My point in those questions wasn't to be an asshole at all. It was to show that no matter what we believe we all still think the same way. We all think we are right and we have our reason. Does that make any of us wrong? No because it is an opinon. I have no problem with people who believe the way I do. You know that Biggin. I talk to you anytime I see you and think you are an awesome person . Just because people don't believe how I do doesn't mean I look down on them or treat them any different. That's were ALOT of Christian mess up. How can you expect someone to respect you and your beliefs if you don't show them the same respect? It doesn't work. But Alot of Christians don't see it that way.

Where's the rebuttal to mine? lmao.

Anyway, I know it was biggins question, but could you please explain how it does those things?

Okay, but how would the world be better off?

I think you do a look down on people like that more than you know, maybe not even intentionally and that could be correct for many others too...but still do it nevertheless. The problem with Christians generally is that they THINK they are doing good and doing you a favor, when they are being offensive and forcing it on everyone.