why should i have to refer to a book?
if i KNOW a call is wrong, and i have never read the book, what does that say about you?
The next time a coach asks me for a clarification on a call, I will tell him that my actions are based solely on common sense and general intelligence, the RULE BOOK has nothing do with it!!!!!!!
The Rule Book for the game of Basketball is the ONLY REASON the officials are there to begin with. We know it, and we enforce it to the best of our ability. If you can show any official, by the book, where they made a mistake, then you have a right to complain, if you can not, then do us all a favor and keep your opinions to yourself.
Lets say you are an electrician by trade, do you allow a 10 year old kid to tell you how to wire a 220 circuit on your wall heater just because he knows how to turn it on?
why should i have to refer to a book?
if i KNOW a call is wrong, and i have never read the book, what does that say about you?
[IMG]http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh111/Vic_Fontaine/sig.jpg[/IMG]
That is why you are a FAN and not an Official.
Honestly I think consistency is the biggest beef folks have with the AOA in Basketball. Fans for one team or the other WILL NEVER agree with every call a ref makes.
The biggest things I see people upset over are
1) Refs that seem to be looking for confutation
2) Refs that change how they call fouls from 1 qtr to the next
3) Refs that to make calls that they are in no position to make
Honestly I think the AOA guys do a good job in football and Baseball but I can not say the same thing about Basketball.
I would prefer this section would have more to do with users asking rules questions to the refs rather than the refs trying to show up anyone why questions the quality of there work.
As to the possion question I am not 100% sure [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I would THINK that the possion arrow would change after the inbound however this looks to NOT be the case in NCAA Rules assuming that the rules have not been tweaked again since 98
http://www.ncaaforums.com/releases/r...98061001ru.htm
I do have a couple of questions on calls that I Thought were wrong but lacking a rulebook am unable to lookup.
#1) Is the 5 sec closely guarded rule front court only (because I have seen it twice called in the back court)
#2) After the ball has crossed Halfcourt if the Defense tips the ball into the backcourt but the Offence gets to the ball in the back court first is it a backcourt violation (Seen it called BOTH ways THIS year)
#3) The VHSL website site http://www.vhsl.org/bkbother.htm
It is states that keeping coaches IN there coaching box is a point of emphasis this season however EVERY game I have seen this year has included a coach being far enough on the Court to be a distraction to the players and the refs for that matter
#4) While I did not see this one happen I am interested in whether the clock can start on an inbound play if the ball goes out of bounds without touching a players on either team
I am not trying to come off as a smartass But I think if folks can start putting up what they feel are questionable calls the AOA folks we have could either show us where we are wrong of look into making sure that all the refs know what is going on with some of these calls
what??
i was saying that there are TONS of times when you officials blow routine calls, and we see that, without having to read a rulebook.
[censored], you just dont get it, do you?
[IMG]http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh111/Vic_Fontaine/sig.jpg[/IMG]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly I think consistency is the biggest beef folks have with the AOA in Basketball. Fans for one team or the other WILL NEVER agree with every call a ref makes.
The biggest things I see people upset over are
1) Refs that seem to be looking for confutation
2) Refs that change how they call fouls from 1 qtr to the next
3) Refs that to make calls that they are in no position to make
Honestly I think the AOA guys do a good job in football and Baseball but I can not say the same thing about Basketball.
I would prefer this section would have more to do with users asking rules questions to the refs rather than the refs trying to show up anyone why questions the quality of there work.
As to the possion question I am not 100% sure [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I would THINK that the possion arrow would change after the inbound however this looks to NOT be the case in NCAA Rules assuming that the rules have not been tweaked again since 98
http://www.ncaaforums.com/releases/r...98061001ru.htm
I do have a couple of questions on calls that I Thought were wrong but lacking a rulebook am unable to lookup.
#1) Is the 5 sec closely guarded rule front court only (because I have seen it twice called in the back court)
#2) After the ball has crossed Halfcourt if the Defense tips the ball into the backcourt but the Offence gets to the ball in the back court first is it a backcourt violation (Seen it called BOTH ways THIS year)
#3) The VHSL website site http://www.vhsl.org/bkbother.htm
It is states that keeping coaches IN there coaching box is a point of emphasis this season however EVERY game I have seen this year has included a coach being far enough on the Court to be a distraction to the players and the refs for that matter
#4) While I did not see this one happen I am interested in whether the clock can start on an inbound play if the ball goes out of bounds without touching a players on either team
I am not trying to come off as a smartass But I think if folks can start putting up what they feel are questionable calls the AOA folks we have could either show us where we are wrong of look into making sure that all the refs know what is going on with some of these calls
[/ QUOTE ]
To answer the original question, the official was right by not changing the arrow. The delay of game is a violation with a spot throw in. The Alt-Pos throw in never ended so team A retains the arrow.
#1) Closely guarded is only applicable to the offensive team in control in the Front Court.
#2) No Violation, Team B (defense) was the last to touch the ball in Team A's (offense) front court.
#3) Most refs feel if the coach isn't saying anything he is OK. The Rule Book says he MAY be given one warning, after that he/she shall be issued a Technical foul. The warning is optional.
#4) No, the ball has to be touched by a player inbounds in order for the clock to start.
I think you asked some good questions Counts. I'll go as far as saying this, since Albert E is a brand new poster, but seems to be personally offended by some of the things PVFan has stated, I'm going to jump and say that you are an official (that is without seeing a rule book to verify that to me nor being able to quote their name or SSN).
We all know that there are lots and lots of little addendums onto rules. I'll go that you're safely right that there are probably situations where an odd instance changes what the 'proper call' is. However a forearm shiver in the head is still a forearm shiver in the head, don't think that rule 215.10 Section C changes that
No offense, but the attitude you presented to PVFan, in a manner, is another attribute that many complained about. Refs are human, they miss calls. Fans are human, they see things sometimes, but while fans can be biased and that bias can make them see things clouded, refs can be as well
I think most people who complain have said that they have more respect for officials who admit they miss a call, not much for those who try to act perfect [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it.
[ QUOTE ]
#1) Closely guarded is only applicable to the offensive team in control in the Front Court.
#2) No Violation, Team B (defense) was the last to touch the ball in Team A's (offense) front court.
#3) Most refs feel if the coach isn't saying anything he is OK. The Rule Book says he MAY be given one warning, after that he/she shall be issued a Technical foul. The warning is optional.
#4) No, the ball has to be touched by a player inbounds in order for the clock to start.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the info and I think it would be great if posters who rip the Refs ask about the rule that they are ripping that being said I have seen 3 of those 4 rules called wrong this season and while I will be the first to say that the refs are human and due to miss a few here and there is it so wrong for the fans to get upset when they do?
Thanks I will probably come up with a few more rule questions as I think of them
I agree. The other night there was fouls called both ways on both teams twice in like the space of a minute. I think most people thought that it was an alternation of possession type call, but the official clarified that it was a point of infraction call (I think that was the words he said). Right or wrong, at least he had an explanation [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
As for the coaches in the box, I understand that being a rule that some don't see the need to enforce, but some are trying to enforce it and that consistency/inconsistency is the difficult part, especially after it shows up. For example, in one game this year, I think it was Kelly vs Clintwood, almost immediately they warned both coaches (although I don't think Clintwoods coach had stood up). Kind of odd but thats not so bad, as long as people know whats up. You go to the next game or so and Zack Moore could have been playing defense at mid-court (and was most of the game). I understand that officials give some ground, especially in some gyms where if the coach stands up, he's on the court. Common sense definitely has its place.
What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it.
Not to home in on one little thing but this is a cut and past of what the VHSL page had to say on the matter
[ QUOTE ]
The following summarizes two of the "points of emphasis"? identified by the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee in this year's Basketball Rules Book. This information was discussed at length at each of this year's VHSL basketball rules clinics. It is imperative that schools encourage and support game officials in their enforcement of these rules.
"Black & White"? enforcement of provisions of coaching box and bench decorum rules
Head coach only may stand within the coaching box for the purpose of coaching
Head coach must be seated within the box in order to stand in it
A head coach who is not seated within the box may not "walk to it"? to use it
The first time officials observe the head coach out of the box, he/she will be warned (no warning if coach is behaving in an unsportsmanlike way)
The next time the head coach is out of the box, he/she will be assessed a technical foul.
It does not matter if the coach is "only coaching"? while out of the box
Assistant coaches do not have the same privileges as the head coach
Assistant coaches may NOT stand except
DURING a time out or intermission
To attend an injured player if beckoned by the official to do so
To spontaneously react to an outstanding play ? coach must sit back down
The first time officials observe an assistant coach who is standing, they will warn the head coach (no warning if coach is behaving inappropriately)
The next time officials observe an assistant coach who is standing, the assistant will be assessed a technical foul. This technical foul is also assessed indirectly to the head coach, who loses the coaching box privilege.
Coaches who are out of the box gain an unintended advantage. They also 1) are often in the way; 2) are distracting to players, officials and fans; 3) incite undesirable reactions from players and fans; 4) sometimes try to intimidate officials.
[/ QUOTE ]
What worrys me is if other parts of the state are enforceing this rule then the teams we send to The state turnament could be in for a shock.
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