I have a rules question

**CoeburnCane** · February 11th, 2008, 03:07 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WiseRecGuy91</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see what we have here now, a person complaining about officials that has been complaining about officials even since he played Intramural Sports at UVa-Wise back in the day. I think its time for some people to grow up!!!</div></div>

Ha...whatever dude. I never got a technical, complained about not getting a call or two in games, sure--but when Ronnie Welch had his guys & gals doing a good job, I didn't do much complaining--and I understood they were students like me and didn't complain much at all. I talked and had fun b/c a lot of those people were my friends, but I never went overboard.

What we have here in WiseRecGuy91 is a guy who took over those classes from Ronnie, and if you played against his team or his frat in intramurals--expect to get jobbed--because his students wouldn't call anything on him or his teams for fear of getting a bad grade. Dude took full advantage of it too--broke as many rules as he could to win because he wanted to somehow relive some glory years he never had to begin with...sad.

If I'm going to take any advice to grow up--it wouldn't be from someone like you who has yet to do so.

But--let's not let a kid that got hurt due to poor officiating which is basically the subject at hand keep you away from personally attacking me...sorry to interrupt your threadjack. Proceed.

**CoeburnCane** · February 11th, 2008, 03:10 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure you want that--then again, I'm talking to the same guy who flat out tackled Andrew Adkins when he was a freshman and you were a senior because you were frustrated that Coeburn just beat PV again on your home floor.

So the above statement is not an attack on him? You are basing how he officiates on something that happened in high school as a player? I was ejected 20 years ago from the PV Appy football game is that a basis on how I am going to officiate? I do not think so. I really cannot comment on the ability of any basketball official because I have not been one and I have seen exactly two games in the last 10 years and they were both this year. </div></div>

Lots of times, officials get some of their tendencies in how they call games from how they played the game itself. The Adkins incident to me was an example of how he played the game. I was wondering aloud if that's why the physical style of calling a game was how he went about things. Not a major stretch, and I didn't question his character for said incident.

**imported_UKCats1** · February 11th, 2008, 03:30 PM

You made a characterization that he played rough thus he is going to officiate rough. You say that he was frustrated about getting beat so he takes a cheap shot at a younger player. If that is not a characterization or a judgment then what is?

Just because an official was a dirty player at one time back in p-nut does not make him one now. It all has to do with maturity and the willingness to work at it. I have a friend who is right now a D2 College White Hat. When he first started I would have not thought he would have been able to call a p-nut football game correctly. Now he is at the top of his game. I know of officials that are calling sports that they never played and are the best in the business.

How did you play in high school or college? Should we use that in how you perform at your job? I do not know you have no idea who you are and I am not going to judge you by how you played a basketball game 10 years ago. I work hard at what I do. The only way to get better is to work at it and get the reps but you have to have someone mentoring you. Someone needs to be there to tell them what they are doing wrong. You can ask my crew that if they do something wrong I will tell them about it but in a constructive way. If all the young officials worried about how people felt about them and were taking to heart what is being said about them on this website then you would never see them work another game. Yes things need to be changed but by bitching and complaining about them on here will not change them. Band together and make your voice heard to the right people just don't preach to the choir.

**sup-rbeast** · February 11th, 2008, 03:41 PM

I don't have a horse in this race...but usually if a person lacks integrity as a player, they lack it as a coach or official as well. Not always, but most times.

**CoeburnCane** · February 11th, 2008, 03:45 PM

Why do I need to change the AOA for you? Why do I need to talk to the principals? Why can't the basketball officials out there take it upon themselves just to flat out get better at what they do so kids won't get hurt? That's my major concern here, and everyone seems to keep glossing over that there's been kids in the past 2-3 years go thru concussions & broken bones on the bball court due to the style of play allowed by the way these games are officiated.

The association's makeup right now sucks--we've been over that. But why can't basketball officials simply get better of their own volition, in spite of the way the association's made up? To use your "my job" analogy--if I worked for a crappy company, why should that keep me from being top notch at my job? If I really care about doing my job well and have enough self-pride to be good at what I do--then what should hold me back? Same applies to the AOA's basketball officials.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone needs to be there to tell them what they are doing wrong.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If all the young officials worried about how people felt about them and were taking to heart what is being said about them on this website then you would never see them work another game.</div></div>

Can't have it both ways. If someone (even a fan) is there to tell them what they're doing wrong, then shouted down for criticizing someone's mistakes...then what's the use? How's anyone ever going to learn? How many kids have to get pretty seriously injured to make a difference in how the games are officiated?

As for the Adkins incident, I never said he was a horrible person that should rot in eternity for what he did. And had you seen the play, the frustration was highly evident, and the outcome of the game was a Coeburn win on PV's home floor his senior year--all fact. Take all the implications you will from how I worded that--but I never said he was a bad person for what he did. I questioned if that's where his way of calling the game came from...that's all.

**imported_UKCats1** · February 11th, 2008, 03:46 PM

Many times that may be but quite often a persons integrity matures as the person does. A person makes a mistake as a 14 year old may not make that same mistake as a 24 year old.

**pvfan** · February 11th, 2008, 03:49 PM

I'm not saying anybody would or wouldn't cheat I'm just saying that with our area where you know everyone it's really difficult to officiate. I'm sure some refs would take it and hurt their old high school and others would help, it's bound to happen with that many officials. It's not possible to get outside officials either so were stuck with status quo. Talking to the principals wont do any good, it will be the same officials and with our culture in this area everybody knows everybody. Especially with basketball where the fans are very visible and can communicate with the officials there are always going to be issues like this.

**CoeburnCane** · February 11th, 2008, 03:52 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UKCats1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Many times that may be but quite often a persons integrity matures as the person does. A person makes a mistake as a 14 year old may not make that same mistake as a 24 year old.</div></div>

But is it a major stretch to say that something a person did as an 18 year old would likely be the same type of thing they'd do as a 20 year old? Or that said person would have the same type of mentality?

Didn't think so.

**imported_UKCats1** · February 11th, 2008, 03:54 PM

Oh I hear what you are saying. You are right that there is that basis of what we have to choose from in this area. If you want a change in how the association is run then you have to talk to the principals. If you are happy with the way things are then tell the principals. I am just saying that the principals run the show when it comes to the AOA. No decisions are made by the officials it is the principals that make them all.

**sup-rbeast** · February 11th, 2008, 03:56 PM

If you look at my original post, you'll notice I said most of the time...and IMO, if a 14 year old is playing varsity sports and takes cheap shots etc, he should be in JV...and IMO if something like the kick these folks on here are talkin about happens at a b-ball game, the player should be booted for fighting..not just hit with an intentional foul.