Baseball Question

[pvfan]

Runners on first and third one out. Batter hits the ball to the outfield ruunner at third tags up and scores (however leaves early). However the runner on first is thrown out at second (after man on third scores) ending the inning with the 3rd out. My question is how do you appeal the runner at third leaving early?

[CoeburnCane]

Wouldn't you wait until the actual action stops, and the ball is back in the pitcher's hand for the next batter--and then allow him to step off, throw to the third baseman, and make the umpire make the call, one way or the other?

[imported_Counts]

What PVFAN is saying is that the out at 2nd was the 3rd out his question is it possable to have the run wiped out via a 4th out.

[imported_Counts]

Looks like you can just toss the ball to 3rd

Link

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A fourth out is a legal out made by the defense after three outs in a half-inning already have been recorded. According to the Rule 7.10(d) of the Official Baseball Rules, the third out does not cause the ball to become dead. If the fielders make a subsequent out that prevents a run from scoring, this out will supersede the apparent third out, thus becoming the recorded third out. For statistical purposes, the apparent third out is "undone" and the fourth out's result is recorded instead.

Contents [hide]
1 Examples
1.1 An appeal force out
1.2 A non-appeal out
2 A Real-Life Example
3 Sources
4 Related Sites


[edit] Examples
The situations where a fourth out may be recorded are exceedingly rare, but some examples follow:

[edit] An appeal force out
Suppose the bases are loaded with two outs, and the batter hits a single. The runner from third base touches home, scoring easily. The runner from second base touches third and attempts to score, but is thrown out at home plate. Meanwhile, the runner from first base, on his way to third base, misses second base. Now we have three outs, and one run scored. The fielders have a viable appeal play at second base. If they are alert enough and understand the rules regarding fourth outs, they may make a live ball appeal that the runner missed second base. If such an appeal is made, the runner from first base is out on a force out, because he failed to touch his force base (second base). Since no run may score on a play where the final out of the half-inning is a force out, this out prevents the runner from third from scoring. Thus the runner from third is marked as left on base and his apparent run does not count; the runner from second is also left on base, and his out is nullifed; only the runner from first is out on the appeal force out, which now becomes the actual third out.

[edit] A non-appeal out
Suppose there are runners on second and third base with two outs, and the batter hits a ground ball to third base. The runner from third scores, but the runner from second base is tagged out for the third out. Since the runner from third reached home plate before the third out was recorded, and the third out was not a force out or on the batter-runner before reaching first base, we seem to have three outs and a run scored. However, suppose that the batter-runner fell down on his way to first base and was injured, unable to walk. Then suppose that the fielders throw to first or tag the batter out. Since no run can score if the last out is made on the batter before he reaches first base, this fourth out prevents a run from scoring. Thus the runner from third is marked as left on base and his apparent run does not count; the runner from second is also left on base and his out is nullified; the batter-runner is out, which now becomes the actual third out.

[edit] A Real-Life Example
While a fourth out is rare it nearly occurred in a Major League Baseball game in 1980, had the defense made an appeal. Umpire Ron Luciano was officiating a major league game.

The Play, as recounted by Luciano in one of his books, involved a situation with runners on first base and third base, a batter at the plate, and one out. The batter hit a drive to the outfield which looked like it would drop in for a hit. The runners at first and third ran for the next base, with the runner from third touching home plate. The ball, however, was caught in the outfield for out # 2, and then thrown to first base to catch the runner off base for out # 3. If the inning was over, the run had scored. This, however, created a problem, as the runner on third base had not properly tagged up. The team in the field, seeing there were three outs, did not appeal the scoring of the run by challenging whether the runner from third had tagged up. Therefore, the umpires considered the run to have scored. Luciano stated in his book that he would have called a fourth out on the play if there had been a challenge at third base.
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[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Counts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What PVFAN is saying is that the out at 2nd was the 3rd out his question is it possable to have the run wiped out via a 4th out.</div></div>

My bad--I was a lil slow on that one... [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

[pvfan]

Do the players have to stay on the field to do this though? Most of the time (kids especially) will just run off the field. Once they cross the line there is no way of appealing correct?

[pvfan]

After reading that example it's what I figured you can appeal but I doubt most high school teams would do so. Weird situation in baseball.

[neutral88]

I call some games, not high school though, and I don't know....

Since it was a timed play, I would maybe call the runner illegal, and take the run on my own...It would be hard to make a legal appeal after the 3rd out...The play at 2nd is the base umpires, and the runner leaving third is the plate umpires, So....I guess if I were behind the dish I would trot out to the base umpire after the play, and tell him the runner left early, then we would decide from there...

[imported_Counts]

I don't think that the Ump can take away the run without the Fielding team making the 4th out (throwing the ball to 3rd in this case)

You would have to..you can't score without tagging up, the runner (legally) would still be in play. Unless they were called out for leaving the path.