Brave new World #44 *spoilers*

[Yazimariel]

Well. Here. I. Am.
Dang it Terry. You're evil, for not including that last page last time... :P
Hmmm.. I gave the issue a quick read in the stairs when I was supposed to be working, and I'd have to say, pretty good issue.
With another freaking cliffhanger!!!!!!!!
You know. there's a lotta things we could do to you, Terry. I have friends in Texas.

Alright. Unto the issue. Major diss towards David. good, cuz I like that. I would haowever have to tell Katchoo, that she should stop fooling herself. if you are talking about someone being 'the wrong sex' then you're just not into them. When you fall in love, you don't care about sexuality, not when you're as open as Katchoo. I think she said that to David so that he won't feel bad. she just don't care for him like that. I know, cuz I've used that line too, when I don't want to hurt the boys that are into me.
The whole daydreaming thing that Francie's doing. I think that was cool. great device, I say. It's such a Francie thing to think that just cuz she'll choose something it'll go excellently, with everyone getting along and well... I'm thinking Francie is going to try to be by herself with that baby, have a miscarriage or something, and then that's the ten year riff.
Cuz, that baby CANNOT be Ashley. it's been less than a year since Kat and Fran last spoke. it' just can't be.
I don't know what to expect next.
oh yea, great Drawing of Kat in the back...

and oooh, ooh, WHAT does Koo have to do in her daydream about life with Katchoo?! right now, Francie doesn't know that Tambi is kat's sister (or it wasn't shown at least)
and if she was just a friend of Ashley's, why does she look so much like Kat?
And ooh, Francie is gonna hear me now, what's with the assumption that cuz she and Kat are together, her daughter is gonna be involved in a lesbian relationship? and when Francie and Brad are together, Ashley is of course married with her kids and the lovin' husband...
and that's aboot it for now. bye bye
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"I'm telling you stories. Trust me." Jeanette Winterson

[This message has been edited by Yazimariel (edited October 31, 2001).]

[fallingstarre]

Tar and feathers returned to the shelf, boiling oil set aside,
Terry, that sneaky viscious elf,
has calmed the rising tide.

Villager's pitchforks and torches at rest
lions back in your den
rabid readership's fears were all jest
and we're left cliffhanging again.


They're making the rollercoasters much more fiendish around here. I hope my head stops spinning in time to find out what Francine "I am woman" Peter's decides (none of the above, I dare to assume).

I didn't think much of version II, but I was so relieved that it existed so as to reinforce that version I was only part of Francine's morning sickness punctuated imagining. Or was it prophesying? In version I Francine certainly got many of the details of Katchoo's future house right, down to housekeeper (or is none of that real either)

It's nice that David's demanding the respect (distinct from love, relationship or sex) he deserves (it's really the only thing in his relationship with Katchoo that he has any reasonable right to expect), I hope Francine follows suit.

Any complaints have been washed away with relief (even the cliffhanger was welcome as opposed to what the end of the last issue seemingly represented).


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A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again. -Alexander Pope

[Oz]

thank you terry. thank god!

i just wanna say that i now fully take back my comments on 43. i think that it worked well as the plot device that it was intended to, but like he said in the back, i just care too damn much...

i liked this issue, cuz everyone seemed to take a stand. david told katchoo how he felt, straight up, katchoo told him straight up that wasnt how she felt, and francine made her decision. i cant wait to see what it is. i dont think that shes gonna go on her own, though. maybe i could see how you get could that yazi, from the thoughts in the back about not being a sidekick and all that, but... i dont see her going on her own. (congrats on starting this topic! )

i really did like this issue. and yeah, it was a cliffhanger, but... like fallingstarre said, it was nothin compared to last time. this one is much more... "welcome" as compared to last issues...

thanks terry. for restoring my faith. sorry for bein an asshole last time, but i think you know that it wasnt meant bad. i just care.

thanks.

[Thrasymachos]

I was hurt by #43 and I said some bitter things then. But it was my fault for misinterpreting what I read. I'm sorry! Now I understand (at least I think I do) what was going on. Terry is brilliant and both #43 and #44 are great issues.
In answer to the question about why Koo resembles Katchoo (except in hair color: Koo is a redhead, as someone (Anaka?) pointed out), my view is that Koo is a character invented by Francine in the Version 1 fantasy so that Koo and Ashley (also a fantasy character) would duplicate the love of Katchoo and Francine, but in an idealized lesbian way. Similarily, in Version 2, Francine's ideal marriage with Brad is duplicated in Ashley's marriage. Interestingly, neither Brad nor Ashley's husband is present. In Version 2, Francine is cloned through 3 generations.
You will notice that both genetically and in sexual orientation, Version 1 Ashley and Version 2 Ashley are two different persons -- and different from the real Ashley as well.
I am deeply in awe of Terry the story teller.

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Peregrinator in paradiso.

[trigger]

Wow. All the possibilities I could think of and all the ones I read of others guesses....

Nobody came up with this. You bastich
Absolutely masterful.

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Broken promises don't upset me. I just think, why did they believe me? -Jack Handy

[Janine773]

I don't think anyone will be coming for you Darth, no worries there... especially not after the firebombs that were launched Terry's way as a result of #43.
At any rate, you are as welcome to your opinion as the next person, but I personally have to disagree... This issue for me simply reinforces what Mr. Moore has said all along, in that he already has the entire story scripted out...it fleshes out the characters even more (moving things ahead, at least for me); especially Fran. And it was wonderful to see David finally develop a backbone and stand up to Katchoo (even though he did sorta cave at the end). "Deserve everything he gets?" For what, exactly, if I might ask? For being a good friend to our two heroines, and for being infatuated with Katchoo? Why the hell does everyone hate David so much? Anyway...

On to the actual content discussion... I think everyone is assuming too much still remains true. For me, #44 throws any glimpses of the future we've seen beyond Francine in the bathroom into serious question; the 10 yr. seperation, the marriages (both David/Kat and Brad/Fran), the hotel scene with Casey (which I STILL doubt anyway, because Casey hung around with the two of them enough to know what was going on between them), even Ashley's existence is suspect... who knows? Maybe she'll have a boy! Consider this, especially; when Francine and Kat first get back together in "the future", most of their meeting is presented as novel text, i.e., the book that "Ashley" was writing in Francine's imagination... at least that's what I think, anyway.

Just my 2 1/2 cents...

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"Listen to the chair leg of truth! It does not lie! What does it say?"

[Tholomyes]

First things First...

Terry, hats off to you for sticking to your guns in issue #43. Printing that next page would have ruined the effect. If nothing else, the past 2 issues have once again reminded me why I read this book... you tell a darn good story.

k

Darth...
How in the world does this issue not move the story forward?! OK... maybe its looks familier, if you ignore the fact that FRANCINE IS HAVING A BABY!!!... I think that bears repeating...
Francine is pregnant. Wow. Maybe its only because I have a duaghter... maybe its because I just found out this week I am going to be a Daddy again.... but wow does this change everything

Pregnancy is the most Joyful/Trying/Scary/Wonderful/INTENSE experiance of a lifetime.

All of the relationships Francine has are about to change. Nothing can remain the same ever again. And if thats not moving the story along, I don't know what is.

Sigh

And then there is David and Katchoo...
They've made their bed (Pun's all around, and now...

well..


Sometimes there are just no easy answers. Thats the difference between SiP and television... nothing is ever wrapped up and solved in a nice little package. It constantly changing, exploring moving, but never really solved.

Anyway, I've rambled enough

Good Work Terry, keep them coming


J




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[Darth Fett]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tholomyes:
Darth...
How in the world does this issue not move the story forward?! OK... maybe its looks familier, if you ignore the fact that FRANCINE IS HAVING A BABY!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And we have known this for how long? About 3 years right? WoW what a revelation...
(congrats to YOU tho'! )

My problem lies in Janinie's comment about how EVERYTHING we have seen in the future is now suspect. If Terry's storytlling is going to take that approach, why believe ANYTHING until the final last this is it issue, cause Terry can just pull another one of these on us. I mean, why belives that ANYTHING has happened since Kat got shot, if next issue Terry can just say he's showing two daydreams of Kat's while she's on the way to the hospital at the end of I Dream of You?
That's really my problem. It's sloppy, not masterful.

I am going to reserve final judgement for SiP to the end. Any speculations or feelings I have are just that-speculations and feelings-and these things may change(probably will) as I see more unfold. I just think this trip has gone on too long. If Terry really ends the 'willshewontshe' phase and actually moves on to tell more about these characters lives, ok it will be worth it. But if she flipflops even one more time, if she does not stick to the decision she makes when she comes out of the bathroom, I'm not gonna be real happy. This 'I am a woman' realization is worth no more than any of the other realizations dear Francie has had in the past 60 odd issues, unless it actually guides her actions.
Stories have a beginning, a middle, and an end. I am sure Terry has the end figured out, he just seems a bit stuck in the middle.

Who wants to bet we won't even see Francine come out of the bathroom next issue?

As for why we hate David Janine, go read the exchange from 44 again.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
hmmmmhmmmhmmmmmm,
oh, you're back? Good. Well ol' Dav was doing a pretty good job standing up for himself, right up until the 'I miss her too honey.' Well, nice to know some things never change. It took David so long to find his spine, but I wasn't reaally suprised he'd drop it again so quickly.
This is pretty much the picture of the problem this guy has. Were he not so damaged, he'd pack his shit, hug K goodbye, say I love you, but this is too painful, so I have to go put my life back together, and move on. But he isn't so he's just going to sit there and slowly go insane(and/or drive K nuts as well)
I guess people don't like him because either a) they have had to deal with the same thing(David) and have no sympathy for a character that is that clueless or b) they have had the misfortune of having acted in a similar way before, grew up/woke up, and now loathe those qualities.
He has not 'been a good friend'-to be sure he IS a good friend to the gals, but that's not why he's there. He has hung around because he has some sort of childish notion that he is destined to be with Katchoo, and is only hanging around because he needs only to perservere in order to get what he wants. He is in love with K, but she is not in love with him. Very simple math, and after this long, if he is too stupid to do the math, well, all the heart ache, sadness, depression, confusion, well, he brought it on himself and deserves it.

Darth

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'If a man is willing to die, he can be killed'
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[Darth Fett]

Well, I'm gonna go get a pair of bolt cutters.
This chain(you know, the one Terry keeps YANKING) is starting to chaff....

Don't get me wrong, #44 was good, but Terry deserved everyting he got for #43(so don't everyone go apologizing, neh?) Terry's a big boy, and he knew what he was doing.
He knew we'd get all confused and pi$$ed, and he did it on purpose. Yes, we were all set up, and then set down relatively gently.
Sadly, I knew how the issue was going to end before I finished the 1st page. For every question answered, 2 left for next issue. Oh well, nice to see somethings never change...

I think I can now finally put my finger on my only problem with Terry: he's very 'pagey'(like Stephen King is considred 'wordy') I mean, hey, Terry you're a great story teller, but you aren't very efficient. I mean, c'mon, get to the fraggin' point already. Once again, we are shown Francine about to make a 'very important decision' and well, been there, done that.
I'm not looking forward to next issue, becuse I am relatively sure any answers will be postponed till later, or just negated next year.
With the device used in the past few issues, I am now just waiting to see if the *10 years later* gets wiped away.

It was nice to see Kat club David like a baby seal tho'. From this point on, the Spineless Wonder deserves everything he gets.

Final analysis: The only thing the past 2 issues accomplished as to honk off alot of readers. The story really didn't move at all(except for the 1 page between Kat and David). Is there really anything gained by nettling your readers just because you know you have them so hooked you won't loose them?(which you do ) Y'know this would have worked better as a double-sized issue, maybe the first SiP Annual. It would have felt a little less like a kick in the jimmies...but hey that's life.
Concept: B
Execution: C+

Let me say this one last thing: Terry, don't be afraid to let go of SiP. Tell the story and move on. I am sure there is more than 1 great story in you, and you need to show the world you're no 'one trick pony' Yes, I know you are set out to do just that with BoP and UTM. We'll still love you after you finish this one. SO GET ON WITH IT ALREADY, EH?


(putting on flack vest and setting landmines at my windows and doors in case the TMADFL(Terry Moore Anti-Defamation League)takes offense.... )

Darth


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'If a man is willing to die, he can be killed'
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[gloryhunt]

Random thoughts:

Hm. I think everybody is taking this "don't trust anything, nothing is as it appears" idea _way_ too far and getting too upset about it. (No, really, some people need to calm down. You're making _me_ nervous.) I think that what we've seen in the future _is_ what's going to happen, with the rest being told in flashback and heading toward that ending. Terry was just throwing us a curve ball with the past few issues by going into Francine's head, and now we're back on track. It's amazing that even with the end a given, Terry still somehow manages to keep us all guessing *what will happen next*?!?

I will agree with the story going somewhat slowly, though. I don't think I can wait two more years (and then some) for the story to conclude. (Suddenly I sympathize with the nurse in Steven King's "Misery"...) But then again, this is the first comic I've ever bought issue-by-issue instead of just buying it up in one fell swoop (like Sandman, and Preacher, etc.)

David. I like David. I want him and Katchoo to get together. (And I want Francine to come live with them, too, in the house in Hawaii... And I'm trying to figure out how in the world that relationship is going to work out. Aren't Katchoo and David married for a while, or did I dream that part of the "present"?) But really, David needs to get a hobby. Recently, his only goal in life seems to be to sleep with Katchoo again. I want his character to develop beyond that. But I have no idea of what direction he could grow in. (With the exception of _his_ past coming back to haunt him, as it has, from time to time.)

(Don't get me wrong. I think Katchoo needs to get a hobby too, sometimes. All she seems to do recently is mourn for Francine and the distance between them. I just feel like she's more justified in some ways. But not in all.)

I, too, think that Francine is going to try to raise the kid on her own. That's the only way that I can see her as being nobody's sidekick. At the same time, I have no idea how she could possibly manage it, considering that the 10 million she had is gone, and she hasn't had a job in a while. I don't think she'd stay with her mother, either, since her mother would bother her day and night to get back together with Brad. Terry said at the end of SIP#44 that her choice might surprise us. Her staying with Brad would surprise me, but I don't see how there could be a story, after that choice... So I'm waiting to be surprised.

All opinions are mine. Take 'em or leave 'em.

=Glory=

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Golden gun for the chosen one