Brave new World #44 *spoilers*

**Mibbitmaker** · November 1st, 2001, 11:58 PM

I feel David was just acknowledging (for himself and the audience) the truth behind the content of Kat's big talking balloon. "You'll never know exactly how I think or how I feel". Deeply, internally, true; but, on the surface, David does know, and he acknowleges that.

I was one who liked #43; the implication of a parallell story. And I like #44, too, showing how different it is than that. Yes, the original flashforward is now suspect, but I find that implication interesting, not some betrayal. More of the whole story is now trustworthy than previously thought. That's a good thing. I don't feel every nook and cranny need be chisled in stone. As long as the main of the story isn't just thrown out(and I didn't characterise the 43-only assumption like that, either), and less disguarded than it seemed before, the other stuff just keeps it interesting.

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"Wars don't last forever, only war does."
- "Hawkeye Pierce" (MASH)
(Larry Gelbart, Laurence Marks)

**Thrasymachos** · November 2nd, 2001, 03:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Janine773:
I think everyone is assuming too much still remains true. For me, #44 throws any glimpses of the future we've seen beyond Francine in the bathroom into serious question
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the contrary, #44 restores my faith in the verity of the bulk of the story so far (which faith was strained by my not understanding just what was meant by "End of Version 1.") #43 and #44 are each fantasies or alternative futures ("Sliding Doors", anyone?), similar to #16 Princess Warrior or the color dream sequence of #1. In contrast, the future was shown in issues #1, #17, #18, & #19, which is too much for a dream.
I admit that Casey's remarks in the restaurant in #1 are inconsistent with her asking Katchoo in #23, "Would you be willing to turn me gay? You know, like you did Francine?" But this is a minor inconsistency, and do you expect logic from Casey? Anyway, Katchoo told her that she and Francine were not "making it," rather forcefully. This should have convinced Casey. Casey had been listening to Freddie's lies. The only time we have ever seen Francine and Katchoo in a lesbian relationship is in Version 1.
No, the future is woven too tightly into Volume III to be negated. Volume III is composed almost entirely of Francine's and Katchoo's flashbacks from the perspective of the future. Sometimes the flashbacks contain daydreams, visions, nightmares, and dopplegangers; but they mostly contain true events, such as Francine's pregnancy.

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Peregrinator in paradiso.

**Janine773** · November 2nd, 2001, 07:10 AM

Okay... it seems I've been horribly mis-interpreted here; my doubt is of the validity of any FUTURE scenes, and of those scenes only, not of the flashbacks themselves. Casey is not all that terribly bright, yes, but she is not that dense as to act in the manner that she did (#42 <after Kat describes Francine, Casey says "Why don't you call her, Katchoo?")... believe me, I have total faith in the bulk of the story, especially since the future scenes comprise only about 2% of what we've seen thus far.
Also, I would like to expand on my David diatribe. Just because he's sticking around out of a naieve fascination with Kat does not disable his ability to be their friend, nor does it discount that Katchoo has certainly done her fair share of leading him around. As has been discussed before, she's done this quite often (end of #12: "Do you know why I don't like men? Becuase I've never met one who was faithful- until now."); and there are several other examples, which for the purposes of keeping this short, I'll leave out.

David, like most of the human race (which just shows how well Terry writes these characters) has problems up the yin/yang, some of which he either can't or won't deal with. For me, this makes him more realistic, not an object of derision. History is rife with people who have spent their lives in pursuit of impossible ideals, and while David chasing after Kat hardly ranks with most of them, it doesn't make him some pathetic dope to be hated, either.

P.S. Gloryhunt; I don't think anyone's getting upset (at least I know I'm not, natch tongue

)... but I am sticking to my guns on this future business... guess we'll find out over the next year or so if I get to put a new Miata in my garage! biggrin

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"Listen to the chair leg of truth! It does not lie! What does it say?"

**pajkub** · November 2nd, 2001, 03:32 PM

Whoo-hoo! My cartoon got published in the letter pages! I am so excited about the future of SiP, but I am also slapping my forehead for not realizing that this was simply a daydream-sequence stretched out over several issues. Duh!

Anyhow, I was just wondering if my drawing looked anything like Terry--I've never met him. I just had to go with the few pics from the convention that were on the website.

At any rate, I loved the comic, but the problem with single issues is that they're just so damn short! I'm much more of a TPB kind of girl, but I'm just not patient enough to wait that long, so I've had to start buying the single issues. I want more more more! Terry Moore rocks my world!!!

--Lillian pajkub

**Prodigal** · November 2nd, 2001, 09:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Darth Fett:
It was nice to see Kat club David like a baby seal tho'. From this point on, the Spineless Wonder deserves everything he gets.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just like Katchoo deserves everything she gets because of her stringing him along, right?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>He has hung around because he has some sort of childish notion that he is destined to be with Katchoo, and is only hanging around because he needs only to perservere in order to get what he wants.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And is it not possible that might have something to do with how when he left Katchoo once before, she went running after him?

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**Darth Fett** · November 2nd, 2001, 09:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Janine773:
David chasing after Kat hardly ranks with most of them, it doesn't make him some pathetic dope to be hated, either.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually Janine, I checked the manual, and yes, it does.
biggrin

Really, I guess hate is too strong of a word tho'-however, I have a feeling even Charlie Brown would call him a block head for not being able to see the writing on the wall. Yes, yes,m there are thousand, millions even, of people just like him, and well, I can't stand them either.
David is a lovable loser, underdog, and people just love to root for them.

pfah.

David is in love with Kat and wants a classic romantic, intimate, 'raise a family' style relationship with her. She want nothing to do with that and has given him pretty much every clue to this. Only once has he stood up for himself(in #44) and he threw that away when she yelled at him. I can't feel sorry for anyone too stupid to get out of the way of the freight train, given all the evidence he has been given as to what the light at the end of the tunnel is.

I said this before, and I'll say it again:
To all of you David fans who think it's sweet and romantic the way he chases Kat around, exactly how long would you really put up with somebody who did that, if you felt the same way about him that Kat does?

Darth

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'If a man is willing to die, he can be killed'
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

**Darth Fett** · November 2nd, 2001, 09:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Prodigal:
And is it not possible that might have something to do with how when he left Katchoo once before, she went running after him?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure. But if he can't see that she's using him as a crutch/back up for the fact that the love of her life is Francine well too bad.
Basically, yes, they are all damaged, need therapy, and probably mediacation, but in the end, if Kat got what she wanted, D boy would be odd man out, and what Francie wants has NOTHING to do with him. He's sand in the oil...not like that sort of thing doesn't happen tho'. I've never said David's characterization or presence was unrealistic......

Darth

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'If a man is willing to die, he can be killed'
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

**frosti** · November 3rd, 2001, 05:41 PM

Wow Darth, you're posts here have been fun to read! *frosti says to himself "settle down, it's only a comic"* ...deep breath.. okay...all better... You can put away your flak vest now.
Sorry, I hope you didn't mind the joke. I was going to say that I disagreed with you on the pacing of the story right now, but I've got to say you have a point. I think the last six issues could have very well been told in the space of three. I can see that Terry is doing a lot of set up work with these issues, but there is an arguement that it's begining to get stuck in neutral. Still, I've been enjoying the book so I haven't really minded, especially since it seems as though the next issue is starting out with someting new.
And I'm really not that offended by 43-44 at all. I don't think that Terry intended 43 as a mean joke by not including the last page, I think that he just wanted to keep a little suspense going. I can't tell you the amount of times I've peeked at the last page of an issue and knew how it was going to pan out. This was just a way to keep that from happening. As far as Terry using one of these stunts to change continuity when ever he feels like it (I don't think you mentioned this but I'll address it), I doubt that it'll happen. These daydreams don't unexplain anything. It's just Francine envisioning her options. It was clearly described as such. Now it's over and we're back to the same storyline as before. Might I add that this isn't the first time that a character has had a vivd daydream sequence. This is just the first time it was streched over a single issue. Also, Terry said that he has the story mapped out already, with a clear beginning and end, and that he isn't going to just throw that away. So I don't see something like 43 happening again, especially after all the heat he took for it.
Does Francine being pregnant change things? Yes, considering there is no way that the child could be Ashley. It just doesn't fit into what we've been told. I'm not sure how this will effect things, but I can't wait to see.
One more thing, I really don't agree with what you've had to say about David. It seems to be a lot to get into right now, but I think nicewitch said it best in the "why does David stay" thread.
oh well, just some thoughts.

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**AsIs** · November 3rd, 2001, 08:51 PM

Congrats Yazi on starting the topic!

I really liked this issue. It explained a lot and opened up a few more questions.

As for the conclusion that this could have been covered in one issue, I like that it is spread out. This is the biggest decision that we are going to see Francine make. I think it adds a lot to the comic to see her process getting there. And if you go all the way back to her discussion with the Minister the focus of the comic has to a large degree been Francine's process to get to where she is at the end of this issue.

How many comics let you get that far into a characters head? I love it.

Thanks Terry!

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Selah

**christinethebean** · November 4th, 2001, 02:08 AM

first of all, i find it humorous that i posted on this thread when the replies were in the single digits and my post isn't there now. i guess it didn't go through. lol

this issue gives me hope for francine for the first time since vol. 2. terry had said that perhaps if we had seen the first page of 44, that 43 might make a world of difference, but it's 45 that i think will do that. off all of the three possible futures shown, i hope that none of them happen to fran and that she chooses one that'll make her happy. go girl, w00t!

also, in none of the futures shown does it show a step-dad named freddy for ashley. so i wonder where terry's forshadowing with freddy. it's gonna be humorous/hurtful or both.

~christine

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