Why does David stay?

[Mousse]

I was going to post this on the issue 44 spoilers topic but it seemed to merit its own thread.
As a long time David fan it always bothers me seeing the negative press he gets on this message board. The girls get criticized, but I don't recall reading posts from fans expressing passion AGAINST them with the frequency David gets it.
So, on the spoilers thread the concept of David being spineless has appeared more than once and my knee-jerk reaction has been to intervene, however I'm afraid I'm stuck without a defense.
I hadn't realized until now that I'd been harboring anger towards SIP concerning David. It started in the issue where Katchoo trashed David's room in one of her fits with Francine. I don't know the issue number, but I remember staring in disbelief at the panel where David's in shock over what happened to his room, wondering if Terry meant it as a punchline.
I'm sorry if that scene was meant to be a tension breaker because I'm afraid I found it to be quite horrifying on a psychological level. That scene wasn't dealt with. Did Katchoo apologize, or for that matter FEEL anything for disrespecting David's personal space? Did David just shrug it off? Did he repress any hostility over it? Life just went on as usual afterwards, and I think my attitude towards SIP shifted with that issue.
I've really grown to resent Katchoo. I resent what Francine, David, her creator, and a significant portion of SIP fans permit her to get away with. Katchoo has crossed the line on more than one ocassion, and it drives me mad that nobody calls her on it. So I suppose I have to concur with the claim that David is missing a spine. He should have been hell and gone from there a long time ago.

Which brings me in a round about way to what I was going to say in the first place. Why does he remain with Katchoo? Is it because he has nowhere else to go? Does he really think she's eventually going to come around? Does he feel if he can "save" her he'll in a sense be "saving" himself? Why would a reborn Christian place so much of his own power onto another person?

I really hope I'm making sense right now. This topic has been welling up in me for quite some time.

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[nicewitch]

Reborn Christian not withstanding, David has a deep love for Katchoo. I don't think it has anything to do with not having a spine. In the overall of the story, we haven't seen a lot of David. Perhaps Terry one day will grace us with a few David centric story plots. Yes, he takes a lot from Katchoo, but a new spin on an old topic, is it the lack of strength that prevents David from going or is it the evidence of strength that David does not abandon her. I think with some of the conversation revealed toward the end of #44, we are starting to see David's ebbing of hope with Katchoo. How many times can one turn love away at the door before it doesn't return? In a way, Katchoo expects David to be there for her and when the time comes that he isn't there, I believe Katchoo will be more deeply affected than she will let on. David is not neccessarily the third wheel here. Francine in her own way counts on David being there, and in a way, David is the guy who doesn't leave. He is not the one who gets fed up with not being able to have his own way and walks out. I don't think David is spineless so much as the quiet rock variety. David is much tougher than most give him credit for being. When this story gets around to really putting David to the test so to speak, I think that David will surprise us all.

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if the world is going nuts, who has the nutcracker?

[JohnnyPanic]

I too agree with nicewitch's assessment of David. This is why SIP is a great comic for me, because there is something in each of the characters' personality I identify with. In David's case, I have stuck by friends I love even when they pull f***ed up crap because there is a core of beauty that makes being with them worthwhile. Especially if you're in love with them. Each of us has a breaking point and will walk away when rejected, but I'm one of those guys who feels it's worth the pain (most of the time)to stay friends with the object of my affection. The results for me have been some of the closest friendships I cherish.

Katchoo is definitely high maintenance and creates havoc in the lives of those close to her which is why she spends a lot of time pushing them away. But David has that quality of PATIENCE which offsets Katchoo's selfish and sometimes cruel behavior. Ultimately, this is a very co-dependent relationship. Whether it's healthy or not is another matter altogether.

Though David is not my favorite character, I see myself in his love for Katchoo. How many of us out there are attracted to someone who is clearly not good for us? Maybe that's what the strong reaction to David's wimpiness is about? I don't see it as being wimpy, though. Isn't longsuffering considered a virtue sometimes? Virtue or not, I do relate. I don't think David views himself that way -- as "poor, doomed David". I look forward to Terry exploring this a little more.

Josh
patient, in Brooklyn

[JohnnyPanic]

I too agree with nicewitch's assessment of David. This is why SIP is a great comic for me, because there is something in each of the characters' personality I identify with. In David's case, I have stuck by friends I love even when they pull f***ed up crap because there is a core of beauty that makes being with them worthwhile. Especially if you're in love with them. Each of us has a breaking point and will walk away when rejected, but I'm one of those guys who feels it's worth the pain (most of the time)to stay friends with the object of my affection. The results for me have been some of the closest friendships I cherish.

Katchoo is definitely high maintenance and creates havoc in the lives of those close to her which is why she spends a lot of time pushing them away. But David has that quality of PATIENCE which offsets Katchoo's selfish and sometimes cruel behavior. Ultimately, this is a very co-dependent relationship. Whether it's healthy or not is another matter altogether.

Though David is not my favorite character, I see myself in his love for Katchoo. How many of us out there are attracted to someone who is clearly not good for us? Maybe that's what the strong reaction to David's wimpiness is about? I don't see it as being wimpy, though. Isn't longsuffering considered a virtue sometimes? Virtue or not, I do relate. I don't think David views himself that way -- as "poor, doomed David". I look forward to Terry exploring this a little more.

Josh
patient, in Brooklyn

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Josh
from Brooklyn

[The Last Nice Guy]

Speaking as a David and in certain ways a former one. I have to say that he stays because hes in love, sometimes we make the mistake that we think that you have to suffer for love. Ive noticed that artists tend to have this thought.

I think he stays because perhaps she stirred a change in him. And maybe he feels he has to return the act.

I really cant tell you more because these are all plot points that are still not clear.

Theyre have been three reasons i have seen and experianced as to way people stay in unhappy situations.

one the suffering for love concept
two lo self esteme.
three gratitude

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See ya,
David

[Thrasymachos]

Reasons why David stays, in no particular order:
1. She baked him a cake.
2. She has kissed him on many occasions, sometimes fogging his glasses and turning his ears red.
3. She has had sex with him. Francine never had sex with her. You might as well ask, why does Katchoo keep coming back to Francine?
4. She told him that she had always loved him and always would love him.
5. She saved his life.
But ultimately, love is not a question of logic. Few people are as strictly logical in their romantic life as Veronica. Read "Of Human Bondage" or see the movie with Bettie Davis (it's not about ropes and leather) for an example of a destructive, one-way love. But the Bettie Davis character never gave the hero any sign of affection. In contrast Katchoo has given David many signs of love.

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Peregrinator in paradiso.

[Mousse]

I think a good part of the reason why the whole David-Katchoo relationship (defined or not) gets to me so deeply is because of an all too familiar personal situation that I'm thankful to no longer be in. So many themes strike a chord, the waiting, the compliments that fall on deaf ears, and so on.
I wound up going to see a counselor for depression, and I discovered that so much of what was unhealthy about my life could be summed up in my putting so much effort into trying to make someone else happy with the romantic illusion that evetually she would do the same for me and everything would suddenly be okay.
I see this reflected brightly in David's draw towards Katchoo. By that token I can't help but feel he's not in as much in love with Katchoo as he is in love with the concept of Katchoo. My counselor explained to me why it's such an easy trap to fall into, and why getting out of it involves some really dramatic changes. Suffice to say, I'm much happier living where I am now, and I rarely feel tinges of depression.
So in a nutshell I believe David is putting his life on hold for something that isn't going to happen. That's obviously a personal projection of myself onto the character, but it seems to fit so easily. I just feel like screaming into the comic for David to pull up stakes and move on. Let it hurt, then let it hurt a little less, then let it heal. It's sad, but that's not always a bad thing.

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[frosti]

Very well put, nicewitch. I counldn't have said it better myself. I too, was disappointed with the verbal beating David is taking in the #44 thread because I think people are totally misinterpeting his actions. The fact of the matter is that David is truely in love with Katchoo, and like you said, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a spine. Look at all the things he's been through with/for her. That takes more than a spineless person. And through it all, Katchoo has continuously lead him to believe that hope springs eternal. (Personally, I think that if the story didn't center around Francine and Katchoo, Katchoo would look just as bad. How many years has she been pining away after Francine now?) Anyway, I think it's obvious that David's been wiseing up ever since they went to hawaii and Katchoo (finally) started being clear on where she stands with him. There've been hints in every one of the latest issues (except 43, of course). So I think that something is about to happen there.

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[Darth Fett]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mousse:
I resent what Francine, David, her creator, and a significant portion of SIP fans permit her to get away with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhm, you resent me? You resent Terry Moore? WTF?
You do realize that none of the characters in SiP are real people, and merely the creation of an man attempting the most difficult form of human comminication(art)

Ferchrissakes, it's not like I sat on my balcony watching Kitty Genovese getting murdered......

I haven't let Katchoo 'get away' with anything.....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mousse:
Why would a reborn Christian place so much of his own power onto another person?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because that's the very first thing you do when you get 're-born'- you put the entirety off your life and responsibility for it in the hands of Jesus.


Why does David stay? Because he's co-dependant and wouldn't know his own best interest if it bit him on the @$$.
I blame Darcy's abuse, but there wouldn't be a 'co' in co-dependant if some of the blame didn't lie with David himself. He stays for the same reason abused women stay with their alchoholic rat bastard husbands.

Darth

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'If a man is willing to die, he can be killed'
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[happybunny2]

I don`t know,but I wish he wouldn`t..



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It's simple tips like these
That keep you safe from injuries
The surgeon general should do his part:
Warning, beware, be careful - Fragile Heart

Words By Jewel(EDA)