www.pro8mm.com?

[Hanthx]

What about Wittner then?
They are advertising overhauled beaulieu 4008 zm and zm2's for around 700 USD, and new 4008 zm and zm2's for 1200 USD.

I'll ask Daniel Wittner to send us a email.

Scott

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[This message has been edited by Hanthx (edited January 21, 2002).]

[Hanthx]

Go to www.Wittner_kinotechnik.de
They are working in conjunction with Beaulieu and manufacturing new beaulieu bodies, parts (the lenses are the only thing overhauled) and accessories.

Scott

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[#Pedro]

Basstruc:

You are defenitively wrong about the 9008:
It has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH WITTNER. I watched the 9008 history, visited it?s first public presentation in Mannheim at a time, when there were no rumor at all about Wittner.

The 9008 was created by RITTER in conjunction with Beaulieu/France, modificating the existing 7008, basicly to have a body just prepaired for the SD8/60 drive for 200 ft reels. Even the 200 ft S8 reels were invented by Ritter in conjunction with Kodak.

When in 2000 Ritter was gone (fooled by Macromedia/Casablanca), the Beaulieu/Ritter conjunction was definitively continued by Bavaria Film Munich/Beaulieu France. Even when Wittner had the most clever web appearance.
Bavaria took all the resting Ritter stuff, repairment equipment, know-how, documentation and man-power. I saw this with my own eyes and even bought former Ritter-labeled stuff directly at Bavaria.

In contrary to Wittner, Bavaria is continuing with the same service support as Ritter was doing, they make camera tuning and updating (6/7008-->9008), supporting the 200 ft drive, modificating projectors to HTI and so on.
Wittner is trying to get as much as possible to resell it on his homepage. They buy many of their cameras and stuff at ebay (!!!), I myself have sold them stuff via ebay. Obviously, they buy at Beaulieu/France, too.
But with their good web appearance and their online-shop, they do a good job for the population of Super8! Even if some of it is only bluffing.

The camera/projector production in France depends a lot on public demand. Actually, Beaulieu is in a kind of stand-by and mostly remanufactures cameras. The 4008 body never had been new but only remanufactured. This is not negative, it only shows the quality of these products.

Pedro

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[Hanthx]

Heres the news:

Dear Mr. Sarver,

thank you for your email.

If you receive such a Beaulieu 4008 ZM II or ZM IV you are willing to say
"it is really new".

The cameras are predominantly from new spare parts manufactured, but they
contain some used sections. They are remanufactured like the 6008, 7008 and
9008 we offer.

We are buying often used cameras (ebay etc.) and the Beaulieu technicians
are using some parts of them to produce those great remanufactured series.

Indeed, Beaulieu is still manufacturing new parts and accessories. According
to their information we are selling most of their products in Europe. We are
pleased of Beaulieu themselves to be defined as "Beaulieu Images Allemagne".
www.beaulieu.de


Greetings,

D. Deby
Wittner Kinotechnik Hamburg


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[Basstruc]

Sorry Pedro, you're surely right .When I had Beaulieu on phone last week, I surely confused RITTER & Wittner .But my point was that the 9008 serie was not a BEAULIEU new camera, just an RITTER modified 7008 to support 200 fts magazines .Beaulieu did not the modification themselves .There was no new S8 BEAULIEU camera serie since 1981 .
Concerning this pretendly new 4008 serie... wittner answered the question themselves :"We are buying often used cameras (ebay etc.) and the Beaulieu technicians are using some parts of them to produce those great remanufactured series " ... I don't think the cameras wittner ( & others ) buy on ebay are broken .So they send it to beaulieu to check parts that may have suffered of aging ,& maybe change them from parts of there stocks .Then the cameras are test & calibrate .This will make a very good camera ,ready for shooting some of the best quality S8 ever know (depend on the DP ).But this is definitly not a NEW camera ! For sure ! What's the real % of parts changed ? For sure ,my 4008 ,bought on a flea market ,would not nead more of 50% of parts to be changed :this was originatly a brilliant camera .
I got problems with the term "Remanufactured serie " .In my language ( french ) ,this would mean that camera are back on production : Re-Manufactuerd .
My real question is : What is the difference on buying an old camera on e-bay or flea market & send to beaulieu ;& buying a "NEW" 4008 from Widescreen or Wittner ? The answer is price .
The Super8sound "Classic pro" camera serie is different .Ok ,those cameras are definitly not a Super8sound ,as the would promiss ( But ,as Beaulieu say :" Who would imagine the contrary ? " ) ,ok those camera are really expensive .But they do modifications ,really interesting modifications : Remove the 2 inside filters (85 and UV), attach a manual zoom and collimate it, add a power connector ,remove the small Beaulieu 4008 handle so the camera can be used with a quick release plate, supply a battery power pack and charger, paint the camera body ( God I hate Tuning !!! ), had a crystal synch & had ( on some of them )a digital frame counter .Thoses modifictions tend to eliminate most of the 4008 problems ( except noise ),so that it can be used on a professional production ,with professional tools ( like heavy tripod & glass filters ) .
matt

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[Basstruc]

Sorry Pedro, you're surely right .When I had Beaulieu on phone last week, I surely confused RITTER & Wittner .But my point was that the 9008 serie was not a BEAULIEU new camera, just an RITTER modified 7008 to support 200 fts magazines .Beaulieu did not the modification themselves .There was no new S8 BEAULIEU camera serie since 1981 .
Concerning this pretendly new 4008 serie... wittner answered the question themselves :"We are buying often used cameras (ebay etc.) and the Beaulieu technicians are using some parts of them to produce those great remanufactured series " ... I don't think the cameras wittner ( & others ) buy on ebay are broken .So they send it to beaulieu to check parts that may have suffered of aging ,& maybe change them from parts of there stocks .Then the cameras are test & calibrate .This will make a very good camera ,ready for shooting some of the best quality S8 ever know (depend on the DP ).But this is definitly not a NEW camera ! For sure ! What's the real % of parts changed ? For sure ,my 4008 ,bought on a flea market ,would not nead more of 50% of parts to be changed :this was originatly a brilliant camera .
I got problems with the term "Remanufactured serie " .In my language ( french ) ,this would mean that camera are back on production : Re-Manufactuerd .
My real question is : What is the difference on buying an old camera on e-bay or flea market & send to beaulieu ;& buying a "NEW" 4008 from Widescreen or Wittner ? The answer is price .
The Super8sound "Classic pro" camera serie is different .Ok ,those cameras are definitly not a Super8sound ,as the would promiss ( But ,as Beaulieu say :" Who would imagine the contrary ? " ) ,ok those camera are really expensive .But they do modifications ,really interesting modifications : Remove the 2 inside filters (85 and UV), attach a manual zoom and collimate it, add a power connector ,remove the small Beaulieu 4008 handle so the camera can be used with a quick release plate, supply a battery power pack and charger, paint the camera body ( God I hate Tuning !!! ), had a crystal synch & had ( on some of them )a digital frame counter .Thoses modifictions tend to eliminate most of the 4008 problems ( except noise ),so that it can be used on a professional production ,with professional tools ( like heavy tripod ,pro matte boxes & glass filters ) .
matt
PS : scuse my poor english ,hope you understood my arguments

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[Matt Pacini]

OK, Jake from the Widescreen Centre got back to me on this "New Beaulieu 4008" issue.
Here is what he said:

"Beaulieu are Making 4008s from old bodies they have had in the factory and are using spare lenses.
There not manufacturing them from scratch.
However all the Remanufactured ones we have had in stock are superbly made.
We also sell a new 6008Pro Digital Beaulieu Chrystal locked ?2,850"



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[#Pedro]

As I said, Beaulieu/France is in a "standby"-position, with a very reduced stuff, doing some remanufacturing, repairment and spare part organization. The last new products from Beaulieu came to Germany in beginning 2000 (7008 and 708EL).
Up to 2000, Ritter definitively sold NEW 9008 models, made from new 7008 bodies. The special parts needed for the 9008 bodies were made by Beaulieu France, but the development and assembling was made by Ritter. Ritter even painted the 7008 cases in black.
Besideds the NEW ones, Ritter offered a remanufactoring service. The customer had to give his old 6008 or 7008 and got a 9008 "R" for some additional cash. These "remanufactored" models were easy to distinguish from the new ones. While the new ones have the "9008"-lable printed in white letters, the remanufactured ones have a red lable and an additional "R" graved into the type number plate.

When Bavaria took the Ritter business in 2000, they continued with the same service offers, and up to now they are modifying customers camera bodies into 9008 bodies.
It seems that they?ve got some NEW 7008 bodies directly from France in the beginning, but there were serious problems with quality in that time. Nearly every camera from France had to be opened, re-adjusted and tested to avoid further problems with customers.
Even more serious was the problem with the last projectors. Even the film path wasn?t polished sufficiently, add. work had to be done to avoid film scratching.

In 2000, the delivery troubles began, Beaulieu simply did not deliver the ordered amount of projectors, wihtout any comments. After a meeting in France, the situation became clear: No more new production possible.

Therefore I can tell you, that Wittner is bluffing a lot, offering definitively NEW cameras and projectors on his website. It would be funny to order one of that "new" bodies from them and see what will happen. There is nothing written about "remaufactured". What they sell as "remaufactured" is a 6008 set and a 4008 set.

I believe for shure, that when you order a camera at Wittner, you will get one in good working conditions and no trash from flew market. But I doubt that they are totally overhoaled, rebuilt, remaufactured etc. as they are claiming.
This is impossible for that pricees in relation to the very high bits they make at ebay. Where is the profit for them?
In Germany, one hour of work for a technician costs at least EUR 60 for the company, a specialist will cost EUR 80...100 per hour. The half of the costs are taxes, insurance etc. the company has to pay, the other half is the salary for the guy. In France, it?s more or less the same situation. Now only imagine, how much time and money a company would have to spend, only for opening a Beaulieu camera, closing and adjusting the viewfinder again! One hour is nothing for that job. If you ever tried it,you will understand.
So I cannot believe what they state, it?s economically impossible. What I believe is, that they test every camera without opening it, clean and polish it from outside and open it only when there is a problem.
If they do a good job, they check at least the colimnation of Beaulieu body-lens sets, but I am not shure.

When you buy a Beaulieu at the flew market, you must at least test all functions, make a rough test of the exposure meter, comparing it with a SRL still camera and if good, running a film. Many cameras have problems with electrical contacts, especially with that control disc near the motor with several sliding contacts. The result are wrong frame and footage counts, not closing shutters when releasing the trigger. You can resolve these problems with cotton sticks and alcohol, cleaning that rotating disc.
Nearly every used Beaulieu needs a fresh adjustment of colimnation and paralaxis, things you cannot do at home. Wrong colimnation results in shots that are out of focus in infinity position. The paralaxis you can test, using the camera as a projector, putting a bright light near the gate, running the camera and projecting to a screen. Looking through the viewinder at the same time, the two imagines should match or at least be centered.

Pedro


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