Another nice WorkPrinter transfer!

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nigel:
I think that Roger is trying to do some really great stuff.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, Nigel!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nigel:
However, I will pay the 225 an hour for Pin-Registration </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh no you won't!

There is no pin registered Rank gate for super 8 anywhere that I know of. Furthermore, unless you specifically pay extra for a 16mm or 35mm SteadiGate, you will not get pin registered Rank transfers, which is why flying spot scanners are so notorious for weave and breathing.

In fact, the WorkPrinter and the DV8 have FAR superior registration than ANY super 8 flying spot scanner anywhere. The mechanical registration on both the WorkPrinter and the DV8 is as near pin registered as you will find anywhere for super 8 or regular 8mm transfers. Practically zero vertical or horizontal weave or breathing.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nigel:

and dead on 29.97 video frame rates.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

The DV8 and the WorkPrinters ARE dead on 29.97fps, Nigel. They both transfer just like the Rank does, frame by frame; only the Rank does it faster, that's all. If you transfer your footage on the DV8 or the WorkPrinter and then apply even a simple 3:2 pulldown by only doubling every fourth frame, you will get EXACTLY 23.976fps on a carrier rate of EXACTLY 29.97 video fps. Same thing on the WorkPrinter. The CineMate units are not frame accurate but the WorkPrinter units and the DV8 are, as you say, "dead on 29.97". They have ono other choice, really, when you think about it, since they transfer frame by frame. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nigel:
PS--Roger, I gave you a Five Star Rating.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aw, man. I'm getting all verklempt....

Thanks, dude. Send me some footage!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 06, 2002 08:40 PM: Message edited by: MovieStuff ]</font>

[plattino]

Just thought I would back up Roger on this one. His transfers kick *** ! Rock solid registration, color correction, and all done with a very nice camera, for a measly $15 per roll? What more could you want? Get the test and see for yourself.

[Nigel]

Roger--

Thanks for the response. It was insightful to say the least. The reason I asked was I was impressed by the demo. Hmmmm.....

Good Luck

[Actor]

Nigel--

Isn't the $225/hr that you think is a steal the rate for lab time? Doesn't an hour of screen time translate to about 3 hours lab time? That means an hour of screen time would cost $675.

I think Roger is charging $15/50 ft reel. At 24fps an hour of screen time is 24 reels or $360 at Roger's rates. Sounds competitive to me.

[crimsonson]

dont want to be a jerk - just want to clarify a little thing -

Rank/Flying Spot pulldown is actually field based and not frame based. Field B and Field A of the next frame is what is actually doubled and not just frame 4 (or which ever).

Still want to get WP 2 when I get the money (saving for 24p DV). [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 07, 2002 01:22 AM: Message edited by: crimsonson ]</font>

[Nigel]

Roger--

I admit that I was a bit misleading with my last statement. I don't pay 225 an hour for Pin-registartion on S8, at least not that I am aware of.

However, my S16 and 35mm is Pin-registered when Xfered--and that is part of what I pay for. I have never had weave or any sort of registration problems with Rank, Spirit or Bosch. Have with some "Film Chain" systems--Not that the WorkPrinter is a Film Chain. But I just don't know enough about how it works yet.

What keeps the registration on?? What is the image going to before it hits the camera?? You don't need to give away "Trade Secrets" but I would like some more info.

Good Luck

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by crimsonson:

Rank/Flying Spot pulldown is actually field based and not frame based. Field B and Field A of the next frame is what is actually doubled and not just frame 4 (or which ever).</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi, Dom!

Oh, I understand that which is why I used the term "simple pulldown". I use the example of the doubled fourth frame because it is mathmatically easier to explain in a discussion. Also, on PAL at least, the Rank IS taking each frame of film and placing it on a seperate frame of video. There is no pulldown and no fields are doubled, therefore PAL transfers are essentially frame based. It is only here in NTSC land that the pulldown is used, which I'm sure you know but, again, just using as a point of reference for those that don't understand what we're talking about.

On the DV8, we use a simple pulldown where we double every fourth frame (for 24fps footage) and it actually looks just fine. Some people have us transfer with no pulldown and then they use AfterEffects to instill a more sophisticated pulldown on their own NLE system.

In either case, the end result is the same: six "artificial frames" are created to add to the original 24 to balance out to 30. On both the DV8 and the WorkPrinter, the frames are transfered one to one which means that, if no pulldown is added, final playback on NTSC will be exactly 29.97. If you then add the pulldown (either with AfterEffects or by simply doubling every fourth frame in Premier) you will then get exactly 23.976fps playback rate on the film.

So, whether it's frame or field based, the math works out the same and, therefore, the speed works out the same. Both the WorkPrinter and the DV8 are "Rank accurate" for lack of a better term.

Roger

[mattias]

regarding pin registered "ranks", i think there is a super-8 gate for the spirit datacine now, but i'm not sure who has it or who uses it. anybody knows anything? i'd sure like to try it...

/matt

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nigel:
my S16 and 35mm is Pin-registered when Xfered--and that is part of what I pay for. </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow! What transfer house is offering a SteadiGate for only $225 an hour? I need to make a note of that. I believe you but I am truly surprised as that rate is lower than most Rank houses that DON'T have pin-registered transfers. Also, a lot of houses have to rent the pin registered gate since they don't have their own.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nigel:
I have never had weave or any sort of registration problems with Rank, Spirit or Bosch.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, again, if you're using a pin-registered gate every time you go in for a $225 an hour transfer, then you won't have any registration issues. However, it is pretty common practice in effects work to specify a pin registered gate for any footage that is going to be composited, as the normal gate generally is not steady enough. The problem is that the amount of weave and breathing on a NON-pin registered gate is the same, regardless of whether you are transferring super 8 or 35mm. Therefore, when you push into the tiny super 8 frame, the breathing is far more apparent than it is on the larger 35mm frame. Or, rather, if you pushed into an area of a 35mm frame that was only 8mm in size, the inherent breathing will be magnified.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nigel:

But I just don't know enough about how [WorkPrinter] works yet. What keeps the registration on?? What is the image going to before it hits the camera?? You don't need to give away "Trade Secrets" but I would like some more info.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a simple pulldown claw that pulls the frame into place in the gate. It is hyper accurate and the pressure plate is very effecient at holding the film in place; about on par with a Bolex 16mm camera, maybe better. The image is picked up via a condenser lens by the users camera. The image is quite large on the jumbo 5 inch condenser lens, with no chromatic aberations or distortions. There is no shutter and each time a frame lands in the gate of the projector, the computer is instructed to capture a single frame of video. Essentially, the WorkPrinter and the DV8 work the same. They are both "optical printers" that are printing frame by frame. Only instead of printing to another film camera, they are printing each super 8 frame to the hard drive of your computer for playback. Once there, you can put any kind of pulldown you wish to get proper playback. PAL users don't have to instill any pulldown, which is why so many of my sales have been overseas.

Roge

[Nigel]

I used to get Ursa Gold or Diamond Xfers from the Tape House in NYC for 250 an hour. I now pay more there--The price was in referance to my S8 from CinePost in Atlanta. I don't know exactly what Rank they have there. I have paid as much as 1200 per hour(Spirit)...But it wasn't my bill either.

Good Luck and thanks for the info.