var-speed super8 projector image still "flickers" in digital video cam viewfinder....

[dgrrr]

I've printed out a bunch of webpage-manuals on how-to record super8 / regular8 movies onto a digital video camera cassette, for the purpose eventually of making it an mpg file or whatever on my computer.

All the how-manuals & webpages say to use a PROJECTOR that has VARIABLE SPEED, so you can eliminate "flicker".

Here's my problem. I have borrowed FIVE 8mm projectors, and only one of them has variable speed, and it's for "regular 8" only. BUT -- even when I load that projector with a reg 8 movie, and vary the projector speed, there's still flicker in the video camera's viewfinder. The flicker just "flickers" at a different speed... (see below)

Likewise I tried using the DIGITAL VIDEO camera's different "auto exposure modes" to vary the "shutter speed" of the camera -- with exactly the same results.... (see next para)

These variations resulted in either a FAST flicker (looks as if every 3rd frame is black), or a SLOW flicker, which just pulsates the brightness a little (as if somebody were turning a brightness knob up and down. None of the settings resulted in a steady video image.

So my question is -- Is this normal? DO I have to settle for / choose between a fast flicker and a slowly pulsating brighness change? OR, IF I SET THINGS UP RIGHT, should the image on video look as steady & solid as the projected film image looks to my eye?

Thanks. I know this is an esoteric question

[monobath]

Well, it's not that esoteric to a lot of the folks on this and other small guage film forums, but I admit that I don't understand the technical details well enough to really answer your questions.

Martin Baumgarten has a good article about telecine using projectors and video cameras Transferring Film to Video that might give you some guidance.

If you're willing to spend some money for the best solution short of a rank transfer, check out Roger Evan's Cinemate or Workprinter telecine machines. You can read about 'em here: S8 and R8 Telecine Machines

Roger posts on this forum sometimes, and there is lots of stuff in the archives, too.

[MovieStuff]

There are a couple of things to look for when trying to transfer in real time using a variable speed projector. If you are working in PAL, then you need to lock your video camera's shutter speed to 1/50th of a second. If you are working in NTSC, then you need to lock your shutter speed to 1/60th. Most lower end Sony cameras are pathetic for use in a telecine situation because they won't allow you to turn your "auto shutter" off -OR- they leave out 1/60th or 1/50th from the entire shutter speed menue (who knows why). The last thing to do is make sure that any "steadi-shot" or image stabilization is turned off, as well.

Now, assuming that your camera is set right and your projector has the common 3 bladed shutter, you can adjust the speed to get rid of flicker at the following synch speeds:

PAL video: 16.66fps

NTSC video: 20fps

Note that for NTSC video, you actually need to INCREASE the speed, not reduce it. Many projectors with variable speed top out at 18fps, so you'd never get rid of the flicker at anything close to normal speed. So (when working in NTSC), the fact that your projector has variable speed doesn't mean anything unless you can push the speed up a bit. Going down will only increase the flicker like mad on NTSC. On PAL, you'll need to reduce to 16.66fps without the projector stalling. Whether or not your projector will maintain speed is another issue but you can generally compensate for speed drift if you watch over the transfer.

One last note: Do NOT try to use the camera's built in LCD monitor to guage flicker. You need to watch the output of the camera on a regular interlaced TV or video monitor during transfer. LCDs have an active matrix that subdue the flicker a bit and what looks okay on your LCD monitor can sometimes look bad when viewed later on a regular television.

Good luck!

Roger Evans
http://www.moviestuff.tv

[bigmasi]

It's not my topic, but I have been waiting answers to this also... Thanks guys!

[dgrrr]

Thanks everybody, especially Roger Evans - I will first make sure Steadishot is turned off. It well may be "on". And I'll re-post for anyone interested.

In the meantime -- My father had a question.

Can I try to vary the speed of the projector by changing the amount of ELECTRICAL CURRENT going to it?

Obviously, increasing the current risks burning out the projector. But assuming that didn't happen (doh!) -- would changing the current (with some kind of resistance dial, maybe?) could increase or decrease the projector speed?

Or do built-in parts of the projector prevent changing the speed in this way?

Thanks

[dgrrr]

IT WAS STEADISHOT!!!!!

Until I read R Evan's message, I hadn't come across ANY mention of the Steadishot feature.

As soon as I turn that off, the problem is gone.

I still may encounter flicker, but the "pulsing" of light caused by "Steadishot" appears to be 100 times worse. So you guys solved a huge problem.

Thanks R Evans!!!!