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Thread: People don't come here any more because they failed.

  1. #1
    Inactive Member Generic Skinhead's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    All those wannabes, newbies, dreamers and nutters over the years. None of them got anywhere...theres never been a "big" success in the history of this board (well, since I've been here). Its an impossible dream for most people, they dont have the money, time, resources and ultimately the talent required.

    There's nothing wrong with a hobby. But see it for what it is.

    Most people are not and will never be good enough. There's a lack of good ideas and a lack of technical skill. Over the years you could count the people capable of lighting a scene on one hand.

    What is success? I'll define it as being a working filmmaker, DOP, screenwriter whatever. Forget blockbusters and box office and such nonsense. Are you a pro? Thats good enough.

    I used to get lambasted fairly regularly for going to film school.

    "You'll learn to make films like everyone else."

    "I prefer my one chip handicam to Super 16."

    "I read rebel without a crew."

    OR

    "I can learn on my own."

    Nonsense. Of course you can't.

    Someone has to teach you something at some point. Now you could be a runner for a decade and make coffee and pick up a few things. But some formal training with quality gear, like minded talented individuals and a day to day devotion to film above all else, is a massive massive advantage.

    Yet, most of the people I went to college with will never make it either. Out of my grad class and the year below theres a bunch of about 11 that will have careers out of 45. We are talking about the only film school in a country of 4 million.

    These numbers are low.

    Barely anyone used to take this kind of info or constructive crit well. But they didnt go off and prove people wrong. They packed it in because the people giving the criticism were correct.

    The people left on the board by and large actually make stuff...but the output for the most part is pretty low and fairly uninspiring.

  2. #2
    Inactive Member jb_617's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd pretty much agree with everything you wrote there.

    Good post [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]


    -------------------------

    He's right you know.

  3. #3
    Inactive Member somedeadguy's Avatar
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    Bullshit! Any one can learn on their own. They may pick up hints from people, and maybe consult reference material, (movies) but they don't have to have formal training. If you want to be a D.P. or a casting agent, go to film school. If you want to be "in the industry" and get coffee and do a celebrity's dry cleaning, go to film school. I think that the ratio of people who go to film school and become serious directors isn't that much higher than that of people who do it anyway.

    I have a goal in my mind, and you are correct, currently I don't have the technical skill or good ideas to make it with the quality that I see it in my mind, but with every project I do I learn something. I never knew how to light a scene, or what crossing the line was, untill I learned that subconciously I was doing how I'd seen in all of those movies when I grew up. Once I read a book and actually learned that there are technical aspects about it, I figured that it was obvious.

    I may not make a huge magnum opus, but one day I'll be experienced enough to make my feature, and if it's as good as I think it is, than others will like it to. If nobody likes it thatn at least I like it.

    I'm guessing that it probably takes at least more than a decade to "prove everyone wrong." Give it some time. Just because you feel like a failure doesn't mean that you need to condemn everyone else to it. Lighten up grandpa.

  4. #4
    Senior Hostboard Member miker's Avatar
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    You know, I was on the Eurostar the other day (?300 return, ouch) so at Waterloo station I picked up a copy of Broadcast for old-times sake. It just so happened that this issue had results of a survey in from around 1500 or so broadcast professionals (yeah, I know it's not the same as the film industry darling) including trends for lifestyle and salary.

    I realised at that point (to quote James) that if I had not seen such riches I could live with being poor (and a career in the industry).

    For a career in the industry I would have to sacrifice:

    1. My family. Most people in the industry are single without children.
    2. My mortgage. Most people in the industry rent.
    3. My earning potential. A senior sound-recordist/mixer earnings top out at about ?35K.
    4. My time. Six day weeks and 15 hour days. For short periods, fine. But in a full-time position it would alsmost certainly mean burn-out.

    Plus obviously, putting up with all the primadonnas and assholes, I'm just not sure how long it would be before I snapped.

    I think my problem is that I want to change the world. Breaking into the film industry isn't the primary way for me to that now (unless I manage to pull an Altman). Being a cog in the machine allows me to indirectly influence world affairs whilst giving me enough leave to work on other people's projects (it's a potential tax break too).

    Even the day job has it's dramatic moments:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=v3vU-mddHEI

  5. #5
    Inactive Member Chance1234's Avatar
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    Im still banking on the no such thing sas overnight succes, ten years of hard work and the being in the right place at the right time. that gives me 3 years left. After that ill think ill give politics a stab.

    I also think that naievity you have at the begining is great as its get things done, as you get older and wiser (ho ho ho) you get a bit more sensible and take more calculated risks, which means less things get done.

    Im sur Marcus Aurelius has some interesting things to say on failure but they escape me at the moment. Generic pretty much agree with your thread, but also agree with The New and Improved Sean Moss (phew thats a mouthful)

  6. #6
    Inactive Member richard.fisher's Avatar
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    Even among those people who post to this board regularly there seems to be quite large differences in aspirations. Some people are keen to work in the 'industry' and are content to get any work they can. Others will split their time doing quite specialist work within the industry, but will then produce amateur work of their own, in their free time, and some have no intention of working within the industry and are relatively content to continue to make amateur work without mass appeal (which doesn't mean that they can't learn and improve over time). Before you can decide someone has failed you have to know what they consider to be success. There are a lot of people here - including myself - who are happy to make amateur works and to try to make them to the best of their ability, making some improvement with each project. For these people, spening 60 hours a week as Jude Law's fluffer would be a failure. Don't get me wrong, if I had been offered the Transformer's gig, instead of Michael Bay, of course I'd have taken it. But in my dreams I'd also like to play professional football for Crystal Palace, go to the moon and a have a foursome with the sugarbabes. They may (big may) never happen, but I do get to play five-a-side down the park, go to europe once a year and spend every night with the women I love, which I don't consider to be a failure.

    p.s. Sorry if this comes across as being defensive, it's not meant to, just trying not to let people get too down on themselves.

  7. #7
    Inactive Member Generic Skinhead's Avatar
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    Originally posted by The New and Improved Sean Moss:
    Bullshit! Any one can learn on their own. They may pick up hints from people, and maybe consult reference material, (movies) but they don't have to have formal training. If you want to be a D.P. or a casting agent, go to film school. If you want to be "in the industry" and get coffee and do a celebrity's dry cleaning, go to film school. I think that the ratio of people who go to film school and become serious directors isn't that much higher than that of people who do it anyway...

    Just because you feel like a failure doesn't mean that you need to condemn everyone else to it. Lighten up grandpa.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I never said it was impossible, just very very unlikely. Take acting - a difficult profession to succeed in for sure - directing is an even smaller shot. Theres only one job per project going!

    You've missed the point on film school. Being around skilled people and making contacts is critical in an industry like this. Even having a crack at the inner circle (the people with the power, funding, etc) utterly depends on whether anyone knows you IMHO.

    You can learn how to do stuff on your own, but you can't shoot, edit, produce, act, do make up, light and record your own sound...well you can but...it will suck.

    Also Mossy, Im 25 today. Thats not old. I don't see myself as a failure, I've finished shooting what is, despite its flaws, one of the best technical achievements in the history of this board. I'm very hopeful it will be the last self funded thing I have to do for a long time.

    I guess we'll see, but I don't see how I could be doing much better at my age without being born into the industry a la Kirstin Sheridan.

  8. #8
    Senior Hostboard Member miker's Avatar
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    I've finished shooting what is, despite its flaws, one of the best technical achievements in the history of this board.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hope we get to see it some time and you don't end up merely operating machinery for the man in the vacuum-sealed film factory.

  9. #9
    Inactive Member Xendar's Avatar
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    I can agree with some of what has been said. I know many of the people I went to college with (I did a BTEC HND in Video Production) now work in jobs that have nothing to do with media or video. Although do know some that made it working for Yorkshire TV, Granada and one of them writes for the Guardian.

    It took me a long time (and lots of extra work and work experience) to get where I am. I now work as a video editor for the University of Leeds working on anything from promotional videos for departments to teaching and training videos among many other things. You could argue that some of what I work on is boring (although I enjoy 99% of it) but that's real life. I know I don't work in the TV or film industry but as far as I'm concerned I've managed to get my dream job. I don't think I'd like a job in the "industry" for exactly the reasons Miker gave. I have a mortgage, Wife and baby on the way.

  10. #10
    Inactive Member emjen's Avatar
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    We are getting old [img]frown.gif[/img] .

    Dreams have changed into reality checks. Fuck it. I dont want to become a film maker. I know there are better directors than me out there and the talent I have lies within creative story telling. Ill keep making my own stuff until I find a better director than me wiling to do my stories. And if I dont find one, well, than I just happen to be better.

    And youre probably right; Ill end up working for paychecks so I can take care of my kids. But that doesnt stop me from having ambitions and thinking I will be up there in a couple of years.

    <font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 25, 2007 01:38 PM: Message edited by: emjen ]</font>

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