The Herberts V Andy Tyrrell

[herbertmatt]

ali i havent dropped you in owt, i was gettin challanged to all sorts adn wanted to no y!!! i agree wiv most of what u said and i recon if u cant b proud of were u came from wot can u be proud of????

[Walt Whitmans Niece]

Matt, Why can't you just be proud of who you are? Wrapping yourself up in the union jack doesn't make you a better person, only you can do that.

Cheers Andy.

[ALPUNK]

Andy! i read your reply and in some parts i agree with what you are saying, however with reference to your stance on britain i have to dissagree> I am from a Northern Irish background with a family who are staunch loyalists and amomg the comunities of Northern ireland there is a vey strong alliegence to the union flag the queen and Britain , More so than in England . The people in Northern Ireland are more British than people in this country . so im afraid i dissagree with you on that part I think as a whole people should be proud to be British as well at English or whatever. But you have to remember that the country is far better as a united Kingdom than as several countries. as for the monarchy yeh i take your point but the monarchy is part of the countries heratage and you have to respect that. as for our imperial past alot of what we did i dont agree with infact some of what we did was totally wrong but that was the nature of the times. Im also afraid I am proud to be British and nothing will change my mind on that. Im not trying to make an enemy of you i think we just have different views ( i dont agree with what you are saying but i will defend your right to say it) i think taht sums it up best hey at least were not racist. one last thing the violence i have never gone out of my way to fight with someone however if i am in that sort of situation i will not back down. violence is not something i enjoy but sometimes it is nescessary

cheers Ali

[herbertmatt]

i am proud of myself adn who i am. but i like the idea of unity, every1 working working together to benifit us. and i disagree with your bands that look down on violence, the vibratore - automatic lover were it says "i want to beat people up instead of treating them kind" doesnt sound to anti violent. and we are not violent people im sure u will agree that it is best to get this anger out in song and music rather than actually doing it on people, i am against violence it is has to b a last resort there are other ways to solve things, but as its been said before times have changed and it is a violent world which is a shame, i have been beaten up before for no reason by a gang of druggies that attacked me from behind just have to deal with it and i think it is a time to rebel

[Walt Whitmans Niece]

Wow, this is all getting very cosy. It's great that in only the space of a couple of days we've managed to get from silly name calling to sharing some common ground. I feel so much better now than I did at the start, don't you?

I have always had a problem with this whole national pride thing, basically because it had nothing to do with me. I didn't choose to be British, I just happen to have been born that way. If we follow that rationale, should I also be proud of being right handed or, more distubingly, white. If, like Ali, you're born into a very patriotic background you're bound to feel a strong sense of belonging. There is no intention, on my part, to try and change anyone's feelings in that regard. I fear, however, that such strong feelings sometimes stifle individuality.

Further to the issue of violence, come on lads your songs are very pro-violence. Violence In Our Minds is nothing more than an incitement to beat people up. At no point in any of the songs you play is violence portrayed in a negative light. Times aren't very different today than they were in my youth. There was a huge amount of gang violence, alot of which I witnessed. Many of the punk songs I listened to at that time reflected that violence but never glorified it like your songs do. Regarding the lyrics from The Vibrators Automatic Lover I've had a look and I can't find the line you refer to. Would you please put up a full transcript of the lyrics you've looked at. I might be looking at a different version. I'd be willing to bet that in the context of the song it doesn't quite come out as you portray it.

One final point, Matt says that he likes the idea of unity, everyone working together to benefit us all. Hang on, isn't that communism, or at the very least, Socialism.

Cheers Andy.

[Walt Whitmans Niece]

Matt,

I think if you read between the lines of those Vibrators lyrics then you'll see that he's saying there's something wrong with him, so much so that he want's to "beat people up instead of", what he would normally do, "treating them kind". Hardly a promotion of violence, unlike your lyrics.....

Hanging in the sub way, waiting for the scum
Especially trendy faces, kick their fucking bum
When they plee for mercy, we will show none
Skinhead, skinhead, 'til the job is done

Which anyone can see is positive promotion of violent behavior.

Trust me Matt, things haven't changed from, as you put it, back in the day.

Cheers Andy.

[herbertmatt]

hahahaha them lyrics still make me laf!!! come on its betta showing our agro this way than actually going out and fighting dont u think???

if things could b this simple....

World politics as......football teams

USA: Man Utd - Utterly Arrogant and motivated by greed. If they suffer the slightest injustice the whole world hears about it. Leader sees himself as bit of a visionary, most see him as bit of a Tyrant.

Al Qaeda: Leeds - Thugs who like to take out opponents behind the play. Capable of upsetting just about anyone. Leader is a paranoid nutter.

UK: Aston Villa - Trying to move forward having been stuck in the past for decades. Have a leader who loves the sound of his own voice, full of rhetoric whilst ducking the important issues.

France: Ars*nal - Perennial bridesmaids. Have a huge armoury but heavily criticized in the past for misfiring. More likely to bore you to death than to be a real threat to anyone. Leader has a habit of turning a blind eye.

Pakistan: Chelsea - Trying hard to be one of the big boys, but has upset a large percentage of it's supporter base through its over involvement with foreigners. Could soon experience a revolt within its own ranks.

The Taliban: Liverpool - Strict disciplinarians where members are measured as much by what they wear and do as who they are. Leadership suffered a bit of a shock recently but clinging to life and always hard to beat at home. Very much a bloke's team.

India: Sunderland - A sleeping giant, not a contender at the moment but with a huge supporter base. Likes to think it's opinion is worth plenty, yet is largely ignored by non fans. Local derbies can be a bit fiery.

The Northern Alliance: West Ham - An undisciplined rabble in need of sponsorship dollars.

Israel: Tottenham - Rabid supporters tucked away everywhere and usually only become vocal when they start winning. See themselves as the chosen but in reality suffer from an over inflated sense of self. Local transport can be a bit dodgy.

Palestine: Fulham - A team currently looking for a home, had been on the periphery for many years before the mid 90s. Not regarded as a big contender but has a strong youth policy. Funded by rich Arabs.

Japan: Everton - No attack, last campaign of any note 1942. Big player financially in the 1980s, however struggling a bit these days.

Iraq: Millwall - Serious hard ars*s who could be on the way back. Opponents prefer to see them out of the Premiership. Most of their neighbours hate them, they know it, and they don't care.

Russia: - Newcastle - Once a great superpower, recently in decay. Have chosen some real muppets as leaders.

Uzbekistan: Leicester - Stuck in the middle. Has a bit of an ars*hole but light on ammunition.

Germany: Wolves - Tendency to self destruct. A strong history but off the scene of late. Unfortunate uniforms.

Australia: Southampton - Completely harmless. Not a contender. Just in it to make up the numbers. Supporters are loyal but regularly embarrassed.

Egypt: Derby - Had a crack at world dominance and though the remnants are still there they hark back to the glory days. A bit over defensive and vulnerable up the middle.

Please note that no country can be associated with Middlesbrough. The closest thing was Lebanon but apparently certain parts of war-torn Beirut are bordering on pleasant.

[SkimmedMilk]

you so cut and pasted that, it was so obvious, cos we could actualy read it.

'and yes we have progressed in 2 days i thinkbut i do think times are very much differnt to bk in the day'

you were not there 'back in the day', Andy was.

[herbertmatt]

who in the hell are you????? were did you pop up from? and yes i no i copied and pasted that, did i claim ne thing else? i seem to think u'v been stickin ur ore in the monkey abuse business as well. oh well so i take it, its round 2 of ur oh so great insults.

[SkimmedMilk]

im james, i didnt realy pop up from anywhere.
up with socialism an all that.