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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Had to laugh!Originally posted by mja61:
.... Actually, he pretty much frowned upon everything, but I digress...
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I don't know if any of you have ever seen Billy Ward play, but the dude has sick hi-hat technique. He plays it as much with the foot as with his hands.
He touches on it briefly in his wonderful DVD, but not nearly enough to do his ability on the cymbals any justice...
MP
Billy Ward is amazing. Check out his vid "Big Time"
if you get the chance - if nothing else than for the little vignettes woven inside .... The drumming-while-driving bit is great....
Its not just his hi hat technique, though - its everything. He does the same with the drums too.
I don't know what level you are at, but for an intermediate player, maybe watching John blackwell Jr.'s MD performace might help. Check out how -no matter what else he's doing - he keeps a strong quarter note pulse going through the song (and I mean STRONG) Funk, R+B, soul, etc is all about the quarter note pulse, with a big ole bomb on 1.
I wouldn't start with Copeland - unless you already have a firm understanding of the more basic styles then he might lead to some wrong conclusions. There are styles where just bashing is bueatiful - it can build tension, and if you step outside for even a 32nd note you lose it all ...
But yes, hi hat theory can make the groove very sophisticated. "Sophisticated" ride patterns usually incorporates the rhythmical framework (back beats, clave patterns, whatever) as well as adding "swing" to it.
A intermediate example is a stardard rhumba cascara pattern : it incorporates the clave
as well as what amounts to pick up notes to it.
So try to pick out the clave (whether it is a rhumba, 2+4, bossa, or what-have-you (in Blue Rondo a la Turk x-x-x-x-- is the clave) and simply let that stand out from the rest of the pattern. Thats all there is for 98% of everything that is listenable by non-musicians....
(BTW - check out Chapin's vid, Speed Power, Control + Endurance), and then check out Steve Smith's video "History of the US Beat" for some great Moeller stuff. )
Besides the players mentioned before (Porcaro, Ward, Tony, etc.) and some others (notably Weckl or Dennis Chambers) I would offer Carter Beauford's excellent, approachable examples of this. These are a good avenue to learning some options of moving around accents on the hi-hat and ride, instead of just a standard "straight" pulse. Some really tasty stuff on "Under the Table and Dreaming," especially "Sattelite" which I spent time learning with left and right hand leading (CB leads generally with left). Learning to play odd accents leading with either hand within the context of a groove was a great excercise for developing independence.
If you listen closely to the track, I think he actually plays straight 16ths and just accents the ones you hear. Regardless, this makes for a good exercise in putting accents in unusual places, and you can even make 6/8 exercies out of it:
R= accent
r= non-accent/ghost
S=Snare
.=rest
rrRrrRSrrRrR/
rrRrrRSrrRrr/
rrRrrRSrrRrR/
rrRrRRS....
Sometimes he accents the hh when hitting the snare as well, but I wanted to get the basic notation down with snare as a marker of groove; you can add the rest. Add the bass drum (usually on 1, 3+, and 6+) and you have a groove where the hihat functions fairly independently of the snare/bass but is having a conversation of sorts with them. Then, switch hands and make it work with your other hand.
That album has a lot great examples of his hh approach--little offbeat accents and hi-hat openings. "What Would You Say" and "Warehouse" are excellent 4/4 examples of this.
I hope this helps. Cheers.
Thanks a lot for some great posts!
I've become a lot more aware of different hihat feels and have started working on it. Fortuneatly I've also become aware of that I'm actually doing more dynamics on the hihat than I thought I was [img]smile.gif[/img] It's interessting to think about this on a more intellectual level, and I've already become a better player, I think [img]wink.gif[/img]
To those of you who ask - I'm 20 years old and have been playing a little since I was pretty young, and somewhat seriously for about 4 years. I play almost every genre I get the chance to, but primarily pop, rock, funk stuff.
One question: when playing one-handed 16s on the hihat like in Toto's Georgy Porgy, the Earth, Wind & Fire tunes cjbdrm talks about, etc. - what technique aproach whould then be made? It seems to me that Porcaro uses only wrist and fingers, but I have difficulties getting a flow that way - how would you do?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I had same problem, the only solution i know is to practice slowly a Lot, until you can get faster and faster naturallyOriginally posted by Jonas Delfs:
One question: when playing one-handed 16s on the hihat like in Toto's Georgy Porgy, the Earth, Wind & Fire tunes cjbdrm talks about, etc. - what technique aproach whould then be made? It seems to me that Porcaro uses only wrist and fingers, but I have difficulties getting a flow that way - how would you do?
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So you wouldn't use the Moeller technique in this case? (Moeller is about using the forarm a little too, to make multiple strokes out of one hand-position, right?)
Wow, I just found this web site and I love this discussion on 16th note high hat technique.
I have been working on this lately and like everybody else find it difficult to develop speed (been playing for 37 years).
Aside from Jeff P. another great drummer I have discovered who has developed this technique to another level that you might be interested in seeing & listening to is Zoro. Check out his video The Commandments of R & B Drumming - The Funk Era. He goes into depth on the subject and also has some favorite players he emulates.
Having stated that a severely over looked drummer that has this technique down (I think he gives Jeff a run for the money) is Steve ?Grizzly? Nisbett the former drummer in Steel Pulse. This guy is a monster. If you don?t own Steel Pulse the Rastafari Centenial - Live in Paris CD go out and buy it today! Grizzlys playing and drum sound is superb. He has the 16th note thing down as well as beat displacement. Also check has his successer in Steel Pulse, Conrad Kelly on the Living Legacy album (buy both CD?s you won?t be sorry). I am willing to bet that they make your top 25 best drummers of all time list. That is how impressed I am of these guys.
Playing along to the Live in Paris CD has been the best thing for me to develop the 16th note HH thing. Also listen to the CD?s on a great sound system. They even have a song named Sound System.
nbps let me commend you on being new to the forum and not posting a new topic that says OMG HI I'M NEW just to introduce yourself. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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