The Weckl Zone

[MethodAir]

"Colaiuta-Weckl-Novak-Steve Smith and Zach Danziger is all you need to listen to!"

Well, not for me actually. I could add a lot of names to that list. No one could do what Bonham did behind a kit, same for Tony Williams or Buddy Rich. Diversity is a wonderful thing, particularly if/when you are developing your own style.

MethodAir
www.electricmountain.com

[PocketPlayer]

“I agree that Weckl has come a long way over the years - not to say he ever sucked...”
“Colaiuta-Weckl-Novak-Steve Smith and Zach Danziger is all you need to listen to!”

I'm not sure if guys make comments like the above just to get things going. I do know the maturity in this forum is on a much higher plane. Funny how the great players rarely make these type of comments. Gary Novak came close recently...but it wasn't about another drummer.
Yet, a lot of this verbal jousting is common place-usually with younger guys. I heard it all over again when standing in line to see Virgil last weekend. Three young guys (18-22) got into it. It was so stupid- I bit my tongue because they weren't interested in learning- but blowing their mouths. Hey, I was a punk kid once! When I see a guy over 30 blowing in such an adolescent manner-well, that's really pathetic!

MethodAir said it well.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 31, 2002 11:49 PM: Message edited by: PocketPlayer ]</font>

[FuseU1]

Ditto to Method. & Pocket ....

[FuseU1]

Roy - thanx 4 the input on the Vinnie solo CDs/instr. tapes - interest'g ... I must admit, as I went back & read my post, it DID seem to sound a "little narrow-minded," [that crack about VC "hav'g only 1 solo CD - whassup with that"]. There could be any of numerous reasons why this is the case [several of which could just simply be someth'g to the effect of, "none-of-my-friggin-business," as well!] So, in retrospect, I don't think this was necessarily a 'fair' statement on my part; "& so, members of the board, I would humbly like to retract it...." but, hav'g said that, I STILL wish he would put out an instr. book & DVD anyway, galdarnit! [despite the fact that he 'might change his mind later;' I mean, so what?! - it'd still be killer ...maybe he doesn't wanna part w/ the "extraordinary gift that gives him a extra edge over the other mere mortals...." [LOL]

[jonthibault]

Pocketplayer should get off his "thou shalt not judge" high-horse. There's absolutely nothing wrong with comparing different drummers. That's one of the ways you learn good playing from bad playing.

[jonthibault]

And another thing...
Manu Katche absolutely sucks. His earlier work with Sting and especially Tears For Fears was very good, but something happened to him and he sucks now. (See my post about the Sting video.)

Billy Cobham sucks on Z-Days New York. Big Time.
So does that other guy whose name escapes me. Vinnie is absolutely amazing on Z-Days New York and he makes everyone else look like scared little girls.

Lars Ulrich sucks. He used to be an okay "rock drummer" (which isn't that great a compliment), but now he's too busy scuba diving to ever practice, and he sucks. Metallica as a whole sucks now, too.

Joe Piscopo (has-been comedian) fancies himself a drummer, and he sucks. Ditto for Dana Carvey. Johnny Carson is actually pretty good.

The guy from White Lion really, really sucks super ass, and so does Fred Coury from Cinderella.

Bobby Blotzer from Ratt is a passable rock player, assuming he's still alive. The guy from Creed is a passable rock drummer, as are pretty much all of those guys in modern rock bands. By "passable" I mean they don't make mistakes playing dopey rock music. Listen to an old Journey CD and be amazed at what a real drummer sounds like in a rock context.

There are some baaaaaaaad drummers out there, hepcats, and there's nothing wrong with pointing them out--comparing and contrasting, as it were. You can't have the good without the bad, yo.

Goddamn, that felt good. Incidentally, Vinnie is better than everybody else. Way better.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 03, 2002 10:18 PM: Message edited by: jonthibault ]</font>

[Nikk]

Hear hear, T-bo,

Nice to know we don't always have to walk on eggshells. I agree with the stuff you said.

[jonthibault]

Thanks, bro. Just keepin' it real.

Word.

[rhythmatician]

Much props to jonthibault for speaking his mind on who sucks without getting kicked out of the forum..hehe

I don't what others are listening to or who they watch play, but Vinnie is on a freakin league on his own...man does not anybody else comprehend what the heck Vinnie is playing within the context of the music??? Its just ridicilous..

I know alot Berklee grads and former students (drumset majors) and they all say that Vinnie is revered as god in Berklee....how quickly Vinnie ate up Chaffee's materials..how everyone would watch Vinnie videos till 4 am in the dorm and go to a 9 am class still be inspired to learn just because of what they witnessed the night before.

I've also taken lessons with some world class drummers (and well known), inevitably, they would diss other drummers, especially the ones that others in this forum think is on equal grounds with Vinnie - Weckl, Donati; but when I asked about Vinnie they would begin to speak in reverential tones of how unfairly gifted he is, of how much of practice freak he is, and of the ridiculous takes of Vinnie in the studio...

So let me say that Vinnie is the best...and everybody else compared to Vinnie SUCKS!!!

[FuseU1]

T-Bo -
I absolutely LAUGHED my freakin butt off while read'g your overall post! [I agree w/ ya 99.99%]
& you guys are startin 2 get a lil nasty, lettin the lil ol' gremlins outta the sack, arentcha!
Havin' said that, I'll jump on the bash-wagon - "One" was the only cool thing Lars ever did. Other than that, he rots, big-time. However, he CAN shake his head around a lot really well & make really "cool," mean, pouty faces 4 the vid-cams.
I'm not sure who the 'other guy' is you referred to on Z Day in NY - Gadd, Acuna, or Tommy Campbell. If u thot Campbell sucked, then I suggest u go out & get John McLaughlin's "Belo Horizonte" ['81] or Kevin Eubanks "Sundance." While he is not exactly Vinnie [who is?!], he definitely does not suck. His soloing on that vid may be lacking to some listeners, but his fusion play'g in a band context is burnin'.
I do agree, however, that Cobham does not come full circle in the solo dept. compared to Vinnie. He was here in clinic recently [I wasn't able to be there], & I heard it from several people that he said some really dumb, arrogant things about himself. Like, "do you think any1 out there today is carry'g the mantle/torch? - Nope. Who's your fav drumr? - Me. Is any1 as good or better than you? - Nope." Now, I loved the Mahavishnu stuff - he played some great sh** at the time, in band context, & I do consider Billy 1 of the landmark drumrs [as do all the other landmark drumrs], but. man, I have some really bad news for him - Vinnie takes his a** to the cleaners.
Also, it didn't necessarily sound to me as if Pocket was on a "thou shalt not judge high horse." I think healthy comparison can be a good thing [funny thing is, Vinnie, in a drum mag intervw yrs. back stated he hates the 'who's better' routine - the dividing by competition, & isolation by comparison that inevitably comes from it - yeah, I guess HE can say that, being the 'baddest-of-the-bad' he is]. I try to learn from the good [& even the BAD] things from any particular player. I'm not a bleed'g heart liberal - you know, the "we're all here together, everybody's good, it's all good, it's all relevant" crap [just check out this "Ameriacan Idol" TV show - try to momentarily deliberately forget the 'hi-school, dog-n-pony,' & other problems/aspects of it - some of the early auditions on there - really bad - & these people actually look surprised & shocked, like they can't believe it when they are told they suck & asked why are they even there!] But to name a handful of players & say "this is all you have to listen to" - that just doesn't quite cover the school of thought in this area 4 me, if'n ya axe me [& even if'n ya don't] - not that the guys named aren't considered some of the greatest all-time exponents of the instrument - & some of my favs - but I listen to a lot of guys from a lot of different styles. And I have many favs that are great players, you know, the usuals - Virg, Weckl, Den, Gary N & H, Heredia, Horacio, Minnemann, DiCenso, Smith, etc. But, once again, I go back to -
VINNIE IS DA MAN!!
[& altho I think Den C is an absolute killer player, 1 of the best; I think he oughta have his lil pud whackered for trashin the 'old Weckl' - cuz it ain't exactly like ol' Denny's gonna leave Dave in the dust, or anything...I've heard some things about Dennis' ego, a' la' Cobham [altho he won't talk that sh** about the Virg]....& I've yet 2 c his name on a Chick Corea CD, altho I HAVE seen Dave's, Vinnie's, & Novak's....]
Which brings me to this last point - just because a guy is 1 of the greatest players doesn't necessarily mean he can't an a-hole, sometimes....