What's this about Mike Mangini breaking Art Verdi's WFD record?

[FuseU1]

[img]graemlins/music.gif[/img] ... dah dah dah dah - "love - love will keep us togedda - think a' me babe wheneva..." [Cap'n 'n' Schlamille]...

HO-KAY, now that THAT's outta da way...

Personally, in & of itself, as it relates to a technique thing, stuff like the wfd is ok... no big deal, like it was said, if it helps expose drumming, that can be a good thing... but sometimes people get caught up too much in the whole "speed" issue - young people, beginning drummers, listeners... speed is definitely what first catches the eye as far as this goes... & technique is very impotant IMHO... but as far as making music, i'd rather see/hear a great groovin' pocket in a live band or recording [& if great technique within the context of the musicality/phrasing is thrown in for good measure - a' la' DW, VC, DC, VD, GN, WK, PE, etc etc blah blah - even better]...

After saying that i might add that technically, Mangini & Minnemann are incredibly superior players polyrhythmically & technique-wise... i enjoyed both their clinics... these guys are amazing & are def. pushing the boundaries of what has & is being done on the kit... [Mangini remarked how incredible he thought Marco & Virgil are]... they all can twistr your gray matter into scrap... & they are both VERY solid, right on meter-wise - almost TOO "solid" w/ the click... but in this area, i prefer Virg to them... to me, he fuses all the elements of technique, power, groove, & taste into a more cohesive, musical whole... yes, he's way more advanced technically than most, as is Mangini & Minnemann, etc; & these guys can sound "mechanical" or "exercise" oriented, but Virg just seems to "groove" more... he is more in the zone w/ Vinnie, Weckl, Chambers, Novak, Husband, etc, IMHO....

[FuseU1]

Here, here

[buga]

ahhhh everything has pretty much being sad and covered. But i'll add my insignificant opinion just for the sake of being redundant!

For one the WFD thing is totally meaninless to me, as a drummer(my OWN character-beliefs etc), but whatever if people are amused by it just like they're amused by those QB Challenges the NFL does or "Slam Dunk" contests like the NBA does or heck even body builders which are totally silly to me, good for them!. Like someone mentioned when you were young, speed was THE THING everyone looked for, but as you grow older u realize there are more important area's to develop and that speed isn't everything. IMO to me every drummer should work or train themselves in something they're fond of, that is if U have an idea in your head and need to execute that idea on the kit, then you should work on that, but not forgetting about "Pocket" and playing from what the music gives ya.

As for Mike Mangini, I've only heard him on the Mullmuzzler records (so don't flame me here!!) but I think his drum tone is awful on the two recordings. I understand what has to happen in the studio with all the tweeking of the sound board, mic positioning, etc. However, you think with a phenominal talent like Mangini there would be more effort to bring out the best sound and tone to enhance the listening experience.

I've had this problem with other drummers as well. Sometime's I will listen to or buy a cd that has one of my fav drummers on it, and their tone is bad. Very frustrating.

[Omnidrums]

I studied with Mike for about a year and a half at Berklee, the whole time I was there. I've seen that man do things on the drums that are so out there technically that made we want to practice my ass off 6 hours a day. To be honest I've never seen Marco M or Thomas Lang pull off anything as impressive as him. The guy can do pretty much anything you ask him...doubles w/ feet at 220 bpm easily, singles same, and with hands I am fairily sure he will derstroy jotans matched grip record when he attempts it as he is faster at matched grip singles than trad grip singles. Mike makes sure when he learns something he can pull it off in any situation at any time flawlessly. He also has the most machine like time I have ever heard. I remember him telling me that he recorded a drum part and then the studio guys tracked it along with a computer and every beat was spot on...even the crazy polyrhythms he played.

I have provided a video clip of what this guy can do...and believe me I've seen him do much crazier stuff. Keep in mind he is doing an ostinato of RR fLL fRR fLL in 6/8 w/ his feet and soloing over it in poly's (4's, 5's, 6's, 7's) with his hands, phrasing in different signatures, and switching leads from right to left.
It's hard to hear because the ostinato gets a little buried in the mix...the compression of the video got screwed up a little. Also you have to crank it because the clip's audio is low.

http://www.omni-music.com/video/mikemangini.WMV


I will gladly post later about his "musical" playing and teaching abilities but I have to go to work now. Enjoy the clip.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 18, 2003 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Omnidrums ]</font>

[peter c]

Thanks for the link, though I could
barely hear it all all. Still, it's obvious
that this player has a control that is rare.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 18, 2003 04:24 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

[FuseU1]

I've prob said most of this b4, but here goes nuthin -
Mangini is an incredible technician & clinician [& there's NOTHING wrong w/ that.] He has an incredible arsenal of chops [what drummer doesn't work on his or her own level of techniques & chops, esp at this point in drumming history?], & an incredible mastery of polyrhythms as applied to fusionistic or modern progressive rock/metal [or whatever labels that are being used these daze.] His meter is uncannily SPOT ON. [& as a drummer, there def ain't anything wrong w/ having GOOD METER, eiter - hmmm, imagine that.] He DEF "AIN'T NO HACK." This is undeniable.

Having said that, tho, he tends to sound a tad mechanical & exercise oriented for my tastes [not that there's necessarily anything wrong w/ that either - since much of the mindset of what's going on these daze seems to be leaning in this direction, given the advent of drum machines, sequencers, digital tracking, etc.]

[Just 1 guy's opin, here - no need to be offended] - I prefer Weckl, Vinnie, Chambers, Husband, Kennedy, Donati, or Porcaro, Gadd, Vega, Erskine, etc.

But this does not discount the fact that i have GREAT respect for Mangini & his accomplishments... & he def has a very infectious, pro-active & positive attitude/force in the drumming, music, & music teaching community... i know he's just a great influence for the yound aspiring drummers in this day, which "ain't an often commodity" in this world today sometimes, if'n ya knows what ah means... NTM he has an off-the-wall, quirky, zany [imagine that!] sense of humor that i know a lot of folks who could stand to use a GREAT dose of these daze.... [img]cool.gif[/img]

PS - not to slam, but i agree w/ FlamTrip - Portnoy should be honored that he is even mentioned in the company of Mangini, Donati or the like - there is no comparison - altho i have to give him [& Campitelli w/ Satch] the "[Great Big] Ballz Award" for playing w/ Petrucci & LaRue[!] every night just b4 Donati w/ Vai on that G3 tour... either he isn't quite aware of the gravity of the situation [given his playing, this may be the case [img]tongue.gif[/img] ], or he has 2 HUGE one's - & THAT might be an "Italian Thing" [no punis intended]...
[I think even Campitelli realized it & simply laid down the time, which he is very good at, & which in & of itself is to be admired...;=) ]
...& it seemed a little odd to me that LaRue was playing w/ Portnoy, & Sheehan was playin w/ Donati, & not the other way around...
["puts on asbestos/fire-retardent vest & waits for flaming" - THIS is prob a good example of why i don't have 5 stars [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img] - or maybe it's the graemlins? ;=) ]
Peart, anyone? [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 19, 2003 01:13 AM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

[peter c]

I'm listening to Mike, with Mullmuzzler,
right now, for the first time. I have
never heard Mangini before today, at
least, knowingly (I have heard Vai
materiel in the past and he was likely
on some of that, I suppose).

While metal is not my cup of tea, I can
hear a drummer through it and I can hear
a drummer through this. He does exactly
what a drummer in this situation should
do, bringing excellent time and feel
to this genre, along with a skillful
application in filling.

The video shows an obvious technical
proficiency that is remarkable. What is
done with this kind of control always
varies from one great player to the next
and over time, players like Virgil are
constantly morphing. I'm interested in
what happens to Mike Mangini.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 18, 2003 06:47 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

[FlamTriplet]

Peart? I have to say that album with Subdivisions on it still kicks ass.

Mike Mangini. Who else can, at the drop of a hat, rip in 19:4 then play a few beats of 7:11:9 etc...
Perhaps Pete Zeldman.
www.petesbeats.co.uk

[Plaid]

I just finished watching that clip of Mangini, and while there is absolutely NO question that his technique is pretty jaw dropping, based on what I just watched, he doesn't seem to be much of a feel type drummer. (though I admit this is the first I've seen/heard from him). You can tell most of the time how a drummer could handle most types of music (IMO) by seeing something even as short as this clip. He doesn't seem to have much of a looseness at all, but I very well may be misjudging him altogether. As I've said before though, I feel a drummer like this is necessary to the drum community. There need to be Feel, Groove, Technique, and Speed Demon drummers out there so that all can see what is possible on our instrument.

[FuseU1]

['Das' why we gots Vinnie, Dennis, Novak, Hakim, Kennedy, Husband, Heredia, Covington, N Townsley, Sanchez, Gottlieb, Lake, Hernandez; & yes, EVEN the Wecklmeister, the Virgenstein Monster, & the Ssmithdaddie [uh oh, here we go....]

As i stated earlier, Mangini, altho posessing INCREDIBLE technique, is a "little bit" [img]wink.gif[/img] less "greasy" compared to some of these other guys... but in the modern world of machine-like spot-on time, he rules along w/ the best of 'em [alongside Minnemann, Donati, Weckl, Vinnie, Lang, etc....]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 20, 2003 06:08 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>