Hardest Part of Writing Sexfight/Titfight Stories for You?

[JB57]

Dear Penman,

Hi! Yes, I am referring mainly to inspiration, particularly when I get into the actual sex scenes. Building a story up to the sex scenes is always fun because of the building anticipation. Don't get me wrong - the sex scenes are the payoff. But I have to feel that way (i.e., that I am writing the payoff) when I am doing the actual writing and, sometimes, I just lose interest in the battle while doing it. This gets back to what we were saying earlier - the sex scenes are necessary but there is also not a huge amount of variation in them. I find I have to feel engaged with the characters to have the energy to keep going.

Penman, I don't remember your earliest stories in the way you describe. I seem to recall that the first of your stories that I read were the Antoinette stories, and I thought they were great - highly descriptive, with a real sense of the tactile, i.e., the meeting of flesh, the joining of bodies and sex and the heat, juices and everything else involved. Sometimes, two hot women having competitive sex is all that you need. However, I seem to recall that your stories have always had, at least, a minimal plot. I still really enjoy the first meeting between Brandi and Fallon, which was basic but really erotic. For some of that, it could be what I said earlier - minimalism allows the reader to fill in the blanks.

I think that it is important to learn what we can from other writers - I do that all the time -but adapt it to our own style. For example, if someone writes in a minimalist style, then trying to add a lot of detail could be detrimental and even cause someone to stop writing, if that person starts to find the process more trying than rewarding. I think you have to know what your style/preferences are and then experiment to learn your limits.

JB57

[shak7]

I have to say I am enjoying this post

The writers here are very talented and I must admit reading your stories is an honor and it makes me try and do better. Apenman's constant referencing to jazz takes me back to my musical roots and helps me in my writing. JB57 stories are perfection.....for him to say he rarely goes back to re-read it is crazy to me, I can only wish I had his gift. If I don't go back and constantly re-read my stories, then frankly they are disjointed and error filled. But what inspires me the most is a particular character who sets the tone for the whole story. For example in the Dezerai series it was the character Dezerai who guided my thoughts. I never go into a story saying I'm going to have this kind of sexfight or that kind. I let the character tell me how this is going to work. Dezerai is a wild, audacious, don't give-a-damn diva who loves nothing more than creating drama, so when she sees Delesha she instantly wants to start some shit with her, get her to react. When she does react, Dezerai just keeps stirring that drink over and over again. So all of their sexfights were a result of how I imagined the Diva Dezerai would stir that drink until it was a bubbling boiling, explosive powder keg! It was the same way with Valencia in Breathless Kisses....she was the straw that stirred that drink. Characters make the story......like Angels Angelica, like JB57s Louise, like Apenmans Lady Bianca......when I read a story I like I focus on the main protagonist and let my imagination fly. So I say to all the writers let your main characters be powerful and wild and bitchy and bold.......that makes the story and the subsequent sexy battles regardless of what they do very exciting!

Shak

[JB57]

Shak, I don't want to mislead you. When I say that I don't re-read my stories, I mean that after they are done and posted on the board, I rarely go back to re-reading them. During the actual writing process, I do, certainly, re-read them in order to refine what I have written. I definitely don't get every word right the first time around. But after the story is finished, for me it is like I've gotten the story out of my system and I'm not really excited anymore by it as I was when I first wrote it. I've got to move onto something new and interesting.

I hope that clarifies things.

I also agree that the characters write the stories. For me, I rarely plot something out in advance, at least not in any detailed way. Often, I am not sure how a story will end. Sometimes, these stories take on a life of their own. I start with a scenario and then let the story unfold in my mind from there.

JB57

[Ragnar0k]

Wow, this thread seems to grow with thoughtful insights by the day, and must surely qualify for sticky status sometime soon?


Today, I'm interested in exploring the points that several posters have raised regarding the importance of build-up, plus the amount of detail that we may or may not decide to put into our fight descriptions.

Perhaps its an old trope, but for me the best part of a horror film is often found in the suspenseful build-up: the image of the deserted path up to the haunted house; the eerie background noises; the doors that creak open by themselves; the unsettling dark spaces; the feeling that we are being watched by someone or something as we creep around...
After all of that, the final reveal of the ghoul / psycho / monster / slasher can often either make, or break, a great build-up. In some films we find that the careful building of suspense is ruined by the injudicious use of CGI, the appearance of a risible villain out of central casting in a halloween outfit, or just bad plotting and acting from that point forth.

Clearly I'm trying to draw an analogy with writing sexfight stories here, and perhaps this is something that I keep in the back of my mind as I write.

A great sexfight story may not require a compelling backstory at all. To me, that's the equivalent of meeting a seductive stranger in an elevator that gets stuck between floors and, while waiting to be rescued, you both feel the spontaneous need to consummate your sudden attraction for each other, without needing to know more about each other's history and motivation, or how and why we both got here. The drama would be contained in the intense descriptions of the acts taking place inside the trapped elevator space, with the added frisson that you both have no idea when the elevator might start moving again, adding a further delicious element of risk and urgency to the proceedings.

I guess we can all try our hand at that type of story, and it would make a great self-contained piece of writing, full of spontaneity, action and tension; on the whole, however, I think I prefer the 'haunted house' type of build-up at the moment which is why I invested a lot of effort in building up the rivalry between the main protagonists in my Boarding School Queen series.

As I explored Mhairi and Helen's rivalry over successive episodes, I started to worry that the crucial title fight might not live up to the audience's expectations. Kind of like the horror film in which, at the final payoff moment, the villain turns out to be made out of cheap CGI. These worries just spurred me to try harder however - and I was pretty satisfied with the end result, as were most readers it seems.

To go back to something someone said earlier in this thread, its not always about the use of graphic description - its also about what you can put into the minds eye of the reader. Assuming that earlier in the story I described the genitalia of the two protagonists in some detail, the reader can now imagine what they look like as they become locked up and I don't need to repeat the same description all over again: all I need do is add a few key words that should trigger the image all over again as the narrative continues to drive along.

I'm fairly agnostic on the level of description that goes into each sexfight: some stories seem to work better for being relatively economical on description, leaving more to the reader's imagination; others seem to benefit from that lavish attention to detail. As I write I try to vary my writing style as well: not least for variety, but also to allow the reader to exercise their own imagination more. One time I might describe in fairly general terms one woman mounting her rival forcefully in the heat of battle; on another occasion I might be more precise in describing the actual point at which their erect clits meet inside the slick furrows of their conjoined pussies.


Apart from some collaborative work I did years ago with two great femfight artists who go by the pen names of Entropy and Splish, my entire published 'canon' to date consists of the Boarding School Queen series posted on this board.
I was clear from the start that I wanted to create a 'character universe' that would allow me to explore the many different forms of the genre that have interested me over the years. Probably the only things that I won't consider covering are death, torture or anything underage.

In time, I may start to publish more stories outside of the Boarding School Queen series, but I still feel that it has scope for most of the things I want to explore for now: adolescent rivalries; Amazonian conflict; MILF combat (coming soon!). Hell, I might even scope some SF-style action in time. An early collaboration with Splish was entitled 'Earth Girls are Not So Easy!'. Splish drew the art and I supplied the scenario and the dialogue.

Well, that's probably enough rambling on for today...

[apenman]

I have to say I am enjoying this post

The writers here are very talented and I must admit reading your stories is an honor and it makes me try and do better. Apenman's constant referencing to jazz takes me back to my musical roots and helps me in my writing. JB57 stories are perfection.....for him to say he rarely goes back to re-read it is crazy to me, I can only wish I had his gift. If I don't go back and constantly re-read my stories, then frankly they are disjointed and error filled. But what inspires me the most is a particular character who sets the tone for the whole story. For example in the Dezerai series it was the character Dezerai who guided my thoughts. I never go into a story saying I'm going to have this kind of sexfight or that kind. I let the character tell me how this is going to work. Dezerai is a wild, audacious, don't give-a-damn diva who loves nothing more than creating drama, so when she sees Delesha she instantly wants to start some shit with her, get her to react. When she does react, Dezerai just keeps stirring that drink over and over again. So all of their sexfights were a result of how I imagined the Diva Dezerai would stir that drink until it was a bubbling boiling, explosive powder keg! It was the same way with Valencia in Breathless Kisses....she was the straw that stirred that drink. Characters make the story......like Angels Angelica, like JB57s Louise, like Apenmans Lady Bianca......when I read a story I like I focus on the main protagonist and let my imagination fly. So I say to all the writers let your main characters be powerful and wild and bitchy and bold.......that makes the story and the subsequent sexy battles regardless of what they do very exciting!

Shak

SHAK!
Great response! Reading it while I listen to MJQ...
Interesting how each of us has a unique approach...I tend to come up with a story line first, create two antagonists and then build the characters inside the story as it evolves. And you're right. This post is taking on a nice life of its own.
AP

[apenman]

Dear Penman,

Hi! Yes, I am referring mainly to inspiration, particularly when I get into the actual sex scenes. Building a story up to the sex scenes is always fun because of the building anticipation. Don't get me wrong - the sex scenes are the payoff. But I have to feel that way (i.e., that I am writing the payoff) when I am doing the actual writing and, sometimes, I just lose interest in the battle while doing it. This gets back to what we were saying earlier - the sex scenes are necessary but there is also not a huge amount of variation in them. I find I have to feel engaged with the characters to have the energy to keep going.

Penman, I don't remember your earliest stories in the way you describe. I seem to recall that the first of your stories that I read were the Antoinette stories, and I thought they were great - highly descriptive, with a real sense of the tactile, i.e., the meeting of flesh, the joining of bodies and sex and the heat, juices and everything else involved. Sometimes, two hot women having competitive sex is all that you need. However, I seem to recall that your stories have always had, at least, a minimal plot. I still really enjoy the first meeting between Brandi and Fallon, which was basic but really erotic. For some of that, it could be what I said earlier - minimalism allows the reader to fill in the blanks.

I think that it is important to learn what we can from other writers - I do that all the time -but adapt it to our own style. For example, if someone writes in a minimalist style, then trying to add a lot of detail could be detrimental and even cause someone to stop writing, if that person starts to find the process more trying than rewarding. I think you have to know what your style/preferences are and then experiment to learn your limits.

JB57

JB57-
Thanks for the quick and excellent response!

My pre-Antionette/Brenda and pre Bianca/June stories...they were pretty one dimensional. At least I thought so, compared to what I?m writing these days. I think they might still be on Mike's site.
I know that you?ve been writing this type of story for quite a while, but do you not occasionally look at your current writings and note significant improvement and maturation over earlier stories?

I never thought of the sex scene as the ?payoff.? But you?re absolutely right. It is, after all, the fulfillment of our prurient fantasies and the primary reason everyone comes here.

I think I pretty much know what my style/preferences are - two beautiful, perfectly physically matched women (I learned that from YOU) meeting in an aggressive, trash-talking but non-violent sexual encounter. But I don't want to get locked in. I want to remain fluid-open to other approaches. This could be why I like to use humor when I can.

Anyway, you?ve given me some food for thought. I appreciate that.

A.P.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, this thread seems to grow with thoughtful insights by the day, and must surely qualify for sticky status sometime soon?


Today, I'm interested in exploring the points that several posters have raised regarding the importance of build-up, plus the amount of detail that we may or may not decide to put into our fight descriptions.

Perhaps its an old trope, but for me the best part of a horror film is often found in the suspenseful build-up: the image of the deserted path up to the haunted house; the eerie background noises; the doors that creak open by themselves; the unsettling dark spaces; the feeling that we are being watched by someone or something as we creep around...
After all of that, the final reveal of the ghoul / psycho / monster / slasher can often either make, or break, a great build-up. In some films we find that the careful building of suspense is ruined by the injudicious use of CGI, the appearance of a risible villain out of central casting in a halloween outfit, or just bad plotting and acting from that point forth.

Clearly I'm trying to draw an analogy with writing sexfight stories here, and perhaps this is something that I keep in the back of my mind as I write.

A great sexfight story may not require a compelling backstory at all. To me, that's the equivalent of meeting a seductive stranger in an elevator that gets stuck between floors and, while waiting to be rescued, you both feel the spontaneous need to consummate your spontaneous attraction for each other, without needing to know more about each other's history and motivation, or how and why we both got here. The drama would be contained in the intense descriptions of the acts taking place inside the trapped elevator space, with the added frisson that you both have no idea when the elevator might start moving again, adding a further delicious element of risk and urgency to the proceedings.

I guess we can all try our hand at that type of story, and it would make a great self-contained piece of writing, full of spontaneity, action and tension; on the whole, however, I think I prefer the 'haunted house' type of build-up at the moment which is why I invested a lot of effort in building up the rivalry between the main protagonists in my Boarding School Queen series.

As I explored Mhairi and Helen's rivalry over successive episodes, I started to worry that the crucial title fight might not live up to the audience's expectations. Kind of like the horror film in which, at the final payoff moment, the villain turns out to be made out of cheap CGI. These worries just spurred me to try harder however - and I was pretty satisfied with the end result, as were most readers it seems.

To go back to something someone said earlier in this thread, its not always about the use of graphic description - its also about what you can put into the minds eye of the reader. Assuming that earlier in the story I described the genitalia of the two protagonists in some detail, the reader can now imagine what they look like as they become locked up and I don't need to repeat the same description all over again: all I need do is add a few key words that should trigger the image all over again as the narrative continues to drive along.

I'm fairly agnostic on the level of description that goes into each sexfight: some stories seem to work better for being relatively economical on description, leaving more to the reader's imagination; others seem to benefit from that lavish attention to detail. As I write I try to vary my writing style: not least for variety, but also to allow the reader to exercise their own imagination more. One time I might describe in fairly general terms one woman mounting her rival forcefully in the heat of battle; on another occasion I might be more precise in describing the actual point at which their erect clits meet inside the slick furrows of their conjoined pussies.


Apart from some collaborative work I did years ago with two great femfight artists who go by the pen names of Entropy and Splish, my entire published 'canon' to date consists of the Boarding School Queen series posted on this board.
I was clear from the start that I wanted to create a 'character universe' that would allow me to explore the many different forms of the genre that have interested me over the years. Probably the only things that I won't consider covering are death, torture or anything underage.

In time, I may start to publish more stories outside of the Boarding School Queen series, but I still feel that it has scope for most of the things I want to explore for now: adolescent rivalries; Amazonian conflict; MILF combat (coming soon!). Hell, I might even scope some SF-style action in time. An early collaboration with Splish was entitled 'Earth Girls are Not So Easy!'. Splish drew the art and I supplied the scenario and the dialogue.

Well, that's probably enough rambling on for today...

Ragnar0k

WOW! Amazing and insightful response! It somehow manages to point out similarities between us, yet also points out differences. And I agree. This is a wonderful thread and I hope it will get bumped up to a sticky so more writers can contribute their thoughts.

AP

[shak7]

Wow, this thread seems to grow with thoughtful insights by the day, and must surely qualify for sticky status sometime soon?


Today, I'm interested in exploring the points that several posters have raised regarding the importance of build-up, plus the amount of detail that we may or may not decide to put into our fight descriptions.

Perhaps its an old trope, but for me the best part of a horror film is often found in the suspenseful build-up: the image of the deserted path up to the haunted house; the eerie background noises; the doors that creak open by themselves; the unsettling dark spaces; the feeling that we are being watched by someone or something as we creep around...
After all of that, the final reveal of the ghoul / psycho / monster / slasher can often either make, or break, a great build-up. In some films we find that the careful building of suspense is ruined by the injudicious use of CGI, the appearance of a risible villain out of central casting in a halloween outfit, or just bad plotting and acting from that point forth.

Clearly I'm trying to draw an analogy with writing sexfight stories here, and perhaps this is something that I keep in the back of my mind as I write.

A great sexfight story may not require a compelling backstory at all. To me, that's the equivalent of meeting a seductive stranger in an elevator that gets stuck between floors and, while waiting to be rescued, you both feel the spontaneous need to consummate your sudden attraction for each other, without needing to know more about each other's history and motivation, or how and why we both got here. The drama would be contained in the intense descriptions of the acts taking place inside the trapped elevator space, with the added frisson that you both have no idea when the elevator might start moving again, adding a further delicious element of risk and urgency to the proceedings.

I guess we can all try our hand at that type of story, and it would make a great self-contained piece of writing, full of spontaneity, action and tension; on the whole, however, I think I prefer the 'haunted house' type of build-up at the moment which is why I invested a lot of effort in building up the rivalry between the main protagonists in my Boarding School Queen series.

As I explored Mhairi and Helen's rivalry over successive episodes, I started to worry that the crucial title fight might not live up to the audience's expectations. Kind of like the horror film in which, at the final payoff moment, the villain turns out to be made out of cheap CGI. These worries just spurred me to try harder however - and I was pretty satisfied with the end result, as were most readers it seems.

To go back to something someone said earlier in this thread, its not always about the use of graphic description - its also about what you can put into the minds eye of the reader. Assuming that earlier in the story I described the genitalia of the two protagonists in some detail, the reader can now imagine what they look like as they become locked up and I don't need to repeat the same description all over again: all I need do is add a few key words that should trigger the image all over again as the narrative continues to drive along.

I'm fairly agnostic on the level of description that goes into each sexfight: some stories seem to work better for being relatively economical on description, leaving more to the reader's imagination; others seem to benefit from that lavish attention to detail. As I write I try to vary my writing style as well: not least for variety, but also to allow the reader to exercise their own imagination more. One time I might describe in fairly general terms one woman mounting her rival forcefully in the heat of battle; on another occasion I might be more precise in describing the actual point at which their erect clits meet inside the slick furrows of their conjoined pussies.


Apart from some collaborative work I did years ago with two great femfight artists who go by the pen names of Entropy and Splish, my entire published 'canon' to date consists of the Boarding School Queen series posted on this board.
I was clear from the start that I wanted to create a 'character universe' that would allow me to explore the many different forms of the genre that have interested me over the years. Probably the only things that I won't consider covering are death, torture or anything underage.

In time, I may start to publish more stories outside of the Boarding School Queen series, but I still feel that it has scope for most of the things I want to explore for now: adolescent rivalries; Amazonian conflict; MILF combat (coming soon!). Hell, I might even scope some SF-style action in time. An early collaboration with Splish was entitled 'Earth Girls are Not So Easy!'. Splish drew the art and I supplied the scenario and the dialogue.

Well, that's probably enough rambling on for today...

Fascinating response

I never read Boarding School Queens but now I am. Your description of buildups resembling a good horror movie is interesting. I am a horror movie fan, not because of the fright, but the circumstances that created it. My favorites are old school classics like Hell Raiser I,II,III and IV. Saw all 7 of them and old school Stephen King stuff like Storm of the Century or Rose Red! The history is big for me and buildup is everything. When I finished Dezerai 3 I had no intention of writing a 4th, but I started dabbling with the two 12 year old girls Karmen and Shalitha and wondered what they would be like as 30 year old women. I had no original interest in a sexfight, just them as women. When I started writing I couldn't stop and next thing I knew I had a 12 part story. The violence between them was not planned at all, it just happened because that's how the story unfolded. When I trained in Kung Fu, my teacher was an International Grand Master, so I had an idea how that world thinks, so the violence between the girls came out of my familiarization of Kung Fu fighters and how they think. I wanted it originally to be totally sexual, but a Martial Artist who is challenged will go for blood if the challenge is formidable. So D4 became a violent story on its own, even though that was not my original intent. Even worse I had more fun writing it than any of my others, in spite of the fact I got less response from it than any of the others.
I wonder of all the writers responding to this thread, which story would be your favorite out of all that you have written and who is your favorite character out of all them. For me D4 is easily my favorite story and other than Dezerai, Karmen and Shalitha my favorite characters.

Shak

[Ragnar0k]

Fascinating response

I never read Boarding School Queens but now I am. Your description of buildups resembling a good horror movie is interesting. I am a horror movie fan, not because of the fright, but the circumstances that created it. My favorites are old school classics like Hell Raiser I,II,III and IV. Saw all 7 of them and old school Stephen King stuff like Storm of the Century or Rose Red! The history is big for me and buildup is everything. When I finished Dezerai 3 I had no intention of writing a 4th, but I started dabbling with the two 12 year old girls Karmen and Shalitha and wondered what they would be like as 30 year old women. I had no original interest in a sexfight, just them as women. When I started writing I couldn't stop and next thing I knew I had a 12 part story. The violence between them was not planned at all, it just happened because that's how the story unfolded. When I trained in Kung Fu, my teacher was an International Grand Master, so I had an idea how that world thinks, so the violence between the girls came out of my familiarization of Kung Fu fighters and how they think. I wanted it originally to be totally sexual, but a Martial Artist who is challenged will go for blood if the challenge is formidable. So D4 became a violent story on its own, even though that was not my original intent. Even worse I had more fun writing it than any of my others, in spite of the fact I got less response from it than any of the others.
I wonder of all the writers responding to this thread, which story would be your favorite out of all that you have written and who is your favorite character out of all them. For me D4 is easily my favorite story and other than Dezerai, Karmen and Shalitha my favorite characters.

Shak

Hey Shak,

Thanks for your interesting response, and for explaining how some of your own story arcs have developed. Its fascinating to hear that you had no original interest in a sexfight, yet were driven by an idea involving strong, competitive women which grew into a 12 part story! We certainly share a common interest in our attention to the history and build-up of our stories.

Its funny, now we are mentioning good horror movies (and I agree with your faves by the way) I'm actually minded to attempt a story which combines the best of both genres. Perhaps not all horror stories would to lend themselves to this approach, although I remember briefly thinking as I watched The Hills Have Eyes: what if the womenfolk of both families had to fight it out for survival with each other in a more sexual way rather than it all just ending in a bloodbath?
I guess demonic possession stories could also provide a rich seam to tap. In fact, several good sexfight stories have already deployed a 'Buffy the Sex-fighting Vampire Slayer'-style theme.


I can't really name a favourite story as I have only written one - though its up to 17 parts and counting! I guess my favourite character was Helen when I started out, but I have not always remained entirely faithful to her - as you may discover if you manage to get through the whole series!

Ragnar0k

[sffan4e]

Wow, what amazing insights have been shared here into the minds of the talented writers here. Thanks for sharing!

And thanks to @Rivals_Rapture to come up with this thread

[shak7]

Hey Shak,

Thanks for your interesting response, and for explaining how some of your own story arcs have developed. Its fascinating to hear that you had no original interest in a sexfight, yet were driven by an idea involving strong, competitive women which grew into a 12 part story! We certainly share a common interest in our attention to the history and build-up of our stories.

Its funny, now we are mentioning good horror movies (and I agree with your faves by the way) I'm actually minded to attempt a story which combines the best of both genres. Perhaps not all horror stories would to lend themselves to this approach, although I remember briefly thinking as I watched The Hills Have Eyes: what if the womenfolk of both families had to fight it out for survival with each other in a more sexual way rather than it all just ending in a bloodbath?
I guess demonic possession stories could also provide a rich seam to tap. In fact, several good sexfight stories have already deployed a 'Buffy the Sex-fighting Vampire Slayer'-style theme.


I can't really name a favourite story as I have only written one - though its up to 17 parts and counting! I guess my favourite character was Helen when I started out, but I have not always remained entirely faithful to her - as you may discover if you manage to get through the whole series!

Ragnar0k

Hey Raqnar0k

The idea of combining genres like woman to woman sexfights with horror is both erotic and repulsive.........a perfect recipe for excitement! But if your reference to the Buffy the Vampire Sex-Fighting Slayer has to do with the precedence set by Deensmith and his incredible writing by all means write it! He is without a doubt my favorite writer here, but his penchant for his heroes losing bothers me. In real life that may be true, but in the world of fiction and fantasy the heroes are always supposed to win! No it's not some unwritten law that says it must be this way......most of us just prefer it like this! It's actually kind of silly when you give it real thought!
But yes a sexfight horror story could be hot.....minus the pools of blood that are the major features of Hell Raiser and Saw and I look forward to learning about Helen and the other characters in your stories.
Be well and happy writing.

Shak