Killing in the name of...

[kilzok7]

...self defense...

While watching a movie the other evening, my roommate and I got into a discussion about killing in self defense. When asked what I would do if I were in a stituation where it was "kill or be killed," I responded that I wouldn't do the former... I.e., I would not kill in self defense, and if it came to that, I woulda allow myself to be killed...

Obviously, since this a hypothetical, I can't be certain of what I would do, especially since such a situation would involve great amounts of adrenalin... But I do hope that I wouldn't kill in ANY circumstances.

My question(s) for you: What does my disregard for the ol' survival instinct say about life? Is not doing everything in one's power to stay alive only a form of suicide? Does my un-willingness to fight for life de-value life?

Is this topic too serious? How many posts will it take before this topic digresses to a series of inside jokes? Will kilzok7 ever stop asking questions? (Damn, it's already begun...)

[gnosis_within]

i think that you are correct in saying that you can't be certain of what you would do. unless you are in the situation, you really do not know, and everyone that has been in the situation and died cannot tell us if they tried to fight back or not. i think that you (and everyone else) would fight back. if i could get away without killing, that is what i would do, but if it came down to me or them, i would do everything in my power to make sure it was them.
i think the only situation in which a person would just let themselves be killed is one in which there is no escape. such as a prisoner being led down the hall to the electric chair. they know that if they try to run away they will either be recaptured or shot as they run away, so the only thing they can do is try to be brave and die with dignity (if that is possible for anyone).


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[SHATOUSHKA]

--speaking of (soon to be) inside jokes--

kilzok says:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Obviously, since this a hypothetical, I can't be certain of what I would do, especially since such a situation would involve great amounts of adrenalin... But I do hope that I wouldn't kill in ANY circumstances.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

kilz, you know as well as i that this statement is absurd. i'll gladly prove it.

1) you don't have to have great amounts of adrenaline in order to kill

2) you cannot help but kill in such circumatances as 'kill or be killed' because it is in your natural inherent ability to perform the former.

i mean...god help the day a virus enters...

oooops! did i do that?

or were you suggesting a 'higher' form of justifying this senario--such as morality and/or personal value?




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General Philosophy

[SHATOUSHKA]

ok....lets just rest in knowing that you meant the latter question.
you say:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My question(s) for you: What does my disregard for the ol' survival instinct say about life? Is not doing everything in one's power to stay alive only a form of suicide? Does my un-willingness to fight for life de-value life?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the three questions you are asking are strange to me.
in the first question, one ( I ) am lead to assume that your value on life is quite high. but then in the next question you insinuate a suggestion in contradiction but saying that such high value of life is (basically) pathetic and should be seen as suicide--or, the readiness to admit defeat. finally by your third question you have returned to the original question (or value thereof) by suggesting that your unwillingness to defend your own life MUST, in a sense, devalue life in general--which concludes that by admitting your short-comings in NOT defending yourself, you hold a higher esteem on life of another.

this is curious.

may i ask if you are wanting confirmation of what is the higher value of the (two) situations? or...
are you wanting me/us to defend whichever of the two you choose?

i suppose what i really want to know is--
upon which do you stand firmly?

this may help me (us?) decypher what you mean. (at very least, it will help me )



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General Philosophy

[SHATOUSHKA]

oh...and kilz...

never stop questioning.

(hurray!!!! you submitted yet another topic!! and its a mighty fine one at that!!)


i am so proud of you.

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General Philosophy

[kilzok7]

What I was trying to do with this topic is explore the issue...

Here is my position: My life is of no more value than anyone else's... Therefore, in a "kill or be killed" situation, it doesn't matter what happens in the grand scheme of things- the world will keep spinning whether I die or not. So I wouldn't go to any extreme lengths to save myself. (Yes, killing is an extreme length.)

The questions were meant to open a discussion on the topic from any direction you'd like to come...

OK, the suicide thing: In a "kill or be killed" situation, choosing to be killed is basically akin to admitting defeat. Is this equivalent to suicide, considering that there is another way out?

As to the other questions... I'm just asking for opinions since I feel conflicted. I do put a great value on life; however, I don't think death would be all that bad either.

[erisesoteric]

Hmmm... You know, my thinking on the whole resisting the basic instinct to survive thing...

There are many people who have been saved from suicide by outside intervention. People who were determined to end their lives. People who just see no point whatsoever in going on.

And after being "rescued" some of these people have admitted to a sudden feeling of "what the fuck!" followed by an intense will to live and to do whatever it takes to do so, regardless.

Now, the circumstances are different, but the point that I'm making is that if someone goes into a lifethreatening situation fully intending to end that life, and STILL wants to live... then the instinct to live is stronger than any moral objections that the upper brain can come up with.

In other words... you may INTEND to lay down your life in order to not kill someone else... but the lizard brain down deep inside of you may not let you do that.

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Give me an edit button, and I'll moderate the WORLD!!!

The Neil & Neal Show

That's our eris! Shy, reserved, prone to pounding helpless arachnids... ~ 5Cats

[SHATOUSHKA]

kilz--let me ask you this:

if someone were to put you in a coffin and lock the top, would you try to get out...or jsut shrug it off and say...better now than ever?

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General Philosophy

[kilzok7]

eris- You're probably right. That "fight or flight" instinct would kick in, and if the flight option were nonexistant, I'm sure I'd get my ass kicked...

Shat- That's a different situation all together. Of course I'd try to get out- I'm all for flight. It's just the fight part that I'm not so sure about, and it would be kinda hard to fight my captors from inside a coffin...

[SHATOUSHKA]

whaddya mean its not the same thing???

if a big, fat guy says,
'hey, punk, i'm gonna put you in this coffin here and seal the lid so that you can never get out of it and die a slow, suffocating death...'

whats the difference in some person attempting to kill you???

i mean, the coffin story pretains because in some case, he'd have to let you know that you were about to get jacked...in which case, you'd have to decide whether to kill or be killed...

maybe i'm just a freakin idiot.

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General Philosophy