which came first--the chicken or the egg?

**MKFaizi** · September 13th, 2001, 10:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>don't even try it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do not understand why you address me in this way. I have done nothing to you or to your forum.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>before making irrational statements, try exiting the system and count how many
times you posted my post...i count 6.
unless, thats your point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is not irrational for me to wonder if I have been silenced since I have been silenced before.

I exited the system several times when I tried to send that one post yesterday. It did not show up until now.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>if you are being silenced (which i doubt) i am sure it is for a good reason<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I am sure also that there are many good reasons for silencing me.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>(although i will contend that you have been checking yourself nicely).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I have done always.

Thanks.

Faizi

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**SHATOUSHKA** · September 13th, 2001, 11:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Yes, I am sure also that there are many good reasons for silencing me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah, there are. here is one:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>As I have done always.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...and don't forget MY personal favorite:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I do not understand why you address me in this way. I have done nothing to you or to your forum.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

---------------------------------------------
by the way, DA, good point on the 'reading' thing...especially nice touch.

touche.

---------------------------------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It is not irrational for me to wonder if I have been silenced since I have been silenced before.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

wonder no more.

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General Philosophy

**MKFaizi** · September 14th, 2001, 12:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>A bit off the subject: MK's comment suggesting I need to do some reading is
accepted & taken with a grain of salt. If you'll remember MK, someone on your
other forum suggested you do the same and you took it as a personal attack<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, I do not believe in cross posting or even much in discussing one forum on another forum -- though I have done this very occasionally when it was necessary.

The discussion to which you are referring took place between myself and another individual whom I give enough credit of intelligence to realize that I did not take his suggestion that I read a book as a personal attack. That was simply not the case. I did not feel that he attacked me in any way. When I asked him if he is a misogynist, it was a sincere question and not one voiced in anger or defensiveness.

I have not replied to that post yet but, when I do, it will not be in a spirit other than a spirit of understanding.

The book that was suggested to me was something on semiotics. Though I am sure that there may be something of small value in reading such work, I do not have time for that sort of indulgence.

What would you have me do? Politely lie by telling him that I would read such a book?

I did go to a web site on semiotics and perused it enough to see that it is nothing that I would likely find to be extremely interesting. I am interested in language but I am interested in using language. I am interested in writing.

I certainly did not intend it as an insult to that other writer by rejecting his suggestion. He is knowledgeable.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>or at least it seemed that way to me since you asked him if he was a misogynist and suggested he not insult you for fear of making himself look like an idiot<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My use of written language is sometimes strong. But I have respect for those who write to me and I have shown that respect and I continue to show it.

Unfortunately, I cannot agree with everything that is written to me in a discussion. I do not expect agreement from others and it is a puzzle to me why such sweet agreement is expected from me.

The more that I write and gather information, the more that I realize that certain things are not acceptable from a female and I confess that I find this to be extremely frustrating.

I may disagree as long as I disagree nicely.
It is my contention that I HAVE disagreed nicely. I have made no threats. I have insulted no one.

I have merely disagreed and I have questioned and asserted.

But I am not writing here to write of myself. It is also a source of frustration to me that, no matter what I write, the topic comes back to a discussion of me and of my motives and my manner of writing.

Here we are discussing an event of epic horror and proportion which may have far more implications and I am required to speak of myself and my writing on another forum.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>or something along those lines. I do not take your suggestion personally and thank
you for your comments.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have taken no comments personally.

Whether or not you choose to educate yourself on policy in the Middle East and on the reality of the Gulf War is completely up to you. However, if you wish to more fully understand recent current events, it is something that I recommend.

Semiotics, other than an intellectual indulgence, has no possible value to me.

As an aside, I will say that I cannot help out with anything by giving blood. I had hepatitis when I was in my late teens.

I did try to volunteer my medical skill but, at present, there are more than enough nurses on hand. However, I will continue to offer my help in the coming weeks when it may be likely that the earlier nurses are tired or have to return to the world.

The true spirit of Islam is love of humankind.

Also, I must say that I do have military experience and I know from that experience that it is not just certain members of the military who are trained to kill. All soldiers are trained to kill and expected to be capable of doing so. That is the purpose of basic training.

I underwent very vigorous training during my time in the army. The fact that I am female had no bearing on what I was taught. The fact that I was a field medic had no bearing on the infantry training I was taught and that I practiced for years.

The sole purpose of any army is to serve to kill an enemy. The enemy is anyone an army is directed to overcome.

I never quite saw it that way but that is another story.

Thanks.

Faizi

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[This message has been edited by MKFaizi (edited September 13, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by MKFaizi (edited September 13, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by MKFaizi (edited September 14, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by MKFaizi (edited September 14, 2001).]

**MKFaizi** · September 14th, 2001, 12:45 AM

I do not understand your hatred of me, Shatoushka. I have written to your forum in a polite and respectful manner and, yet, you despise me.

I have written nothing in a derogatory manner about anyone here and you loathe my every word.

You even congratulate someone for his "upbraiding" of me based on what he has read on another forum.

I don't understand that.

Faizi

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**Hannibal** · September 14th, 2001, 04:56 AM

MKF- lemme see if I can sum up everything you just said in one word... Symantics. Hey, what do you know, I did it. You talk about language, and how you enjoy writing. I think I see why, because when you write, a person does just what you have done, and leaves themself little "outs" so to speak. That way, if someone goes to prove your initial comment wrong *which seems to occur on a regular basis* you jump into your "out hole" which you have left yourself, and use your symantical defense system to divert all wrongness on your account. This is what I have been able to gather from the way you write.
I hope you enjoy to write, because I know I do, as only a true fan of symantics can.
*I use it often in spoken discussions with my parents - which are basically mock trials, I really should be a lawyer, and from the sounds of things so should you*

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**pplaverita** · September 14th, 2001, 06:41 AM

Excellent Hannibal! I really enjoyed your account for Semiotics/Semantics (certainly not 'semniotics'; or is it 'somniotics'?).

Please MK, quit that attitude. Those mock apologies and defensive state you maintain don't fit in here. Of course you are a minority in here, as it concerns many aspects of your personality. Accept the fact you're unique wink

and don't act like a born outcast.

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Never onlyne

**MKFaizi** · September 14th, 2001, 09:20 PM

No. I do not understand the hatred of me here. It is irrational.

I have written here in a sincere and serious way to discuss. What I get instead is a group hatred directed at me. There is never any substantial response to anything that I write -- just hatred of me and, then, praise for hatred of me.

I could understand that if I was writing here for the purpose of disruption but I have not done that. I could understand that if I was unintelligent and boorish. But I am not.

The most startling thing is that derision of me as a poster to this list is upheld and encouraged and sanctioned.

I have posted some things here that are worthy of discussion but little of substance has been posted in response. Why is this?

Faizi

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**SHATOUSHKA** · September 14th, 2001, 09:51 PM

oh lord...

faizi, you damn well what the issue is here. you know this because of the two emails i sent you in response to the one email you sent me.

if the email wasn't enough, time and time again SOMEone has postedcountless things in defense. not only that, you should be ashamed of yourself.

thats right...

ashamed of YOURSELF.

you bitched about this, that and everything in between. you bitched about the 'silencing', you bitched about my attitude towards you, you bitched about the way other posters have treated you, blah blah blah.

anyone can go to the damned archives to see it. anyone can see the damned email you sent and the two i sent--IF i found that necessary.

you HAVE been allowed posting priveledges since and yet you CONTINUE TO BITCH.

i will not kowtow to you nor will you come to this damned forum on a mission 'to dispell the horrible truth(s) about me, my forum, OR other posters.

frankly, i do not care.
you are proving yourself with every post you write in this manner.

recently i have ignored such posts by you.
yet you continue to play 'the bad guy who is always repressed'.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I have posted some things here that are worthy of discussion but little of substance has been posted in response. Why is this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

your 'noteable' posts have bee responded to. how dare you have the righteousness to come here and say that the responses you have recieved have been of 'little substance'.

just who do you think you are??

you can kiss my fucking ass.

there. i have now displayed what you say i am.

screw you and your fucking posts.

you WILL not come here and be a bitch. you WILL not post anything like that again.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?!

as far as i'm concerned, leaving suggestive posts claiming the incompatence of the replies you receive IS an insult in my book. do NOT do this again.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I could understand that if I was writing here for the purpose of disruption but I have not done that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes you have.
this proves it.
amen.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I could understand that if I was unintelligent and boorish. But I am not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you are rude, forthright, righteous, arrogant, crude, and overall...a fucking bitch.

oh yeah...did i mention you are a pathological liar...

hmmm.....

maybe even a sociopath.

be we shall see.

fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

thank you and goodnight.

i am done with you.

do NOT prompt me into a posting war with you. you will be silenced again...

and this time, the whole forum, including the little 'new-subscribers' you so desperately wanted to charm, will witness it.

see YA!

muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu fucking uuuuuuuuuaaaaaaaaah!

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General Philosophy

**MKFaizi** · September 14th, 2001, 10:58 PM

Addendum: I corrected by editing my two misspellings of the word, semiotics, in my previous post. I seldom grossly misspell words and I regret the errors.

It is of some ironic note that I have now been accused of being a semanticist while simultaneously accused of rudeness to someone on another list who urged me to read a book on semiotics.

I am compelled to point out that semiotics is not quite synonymous with semantics. Semiotics is the philosophical theory of symbols or "signifiers" in language, whether it is artificially constructed language or natural language. It comprises semantics, syntactics and pragmatics.

I fully realize that I am not allowed to offer any sort of criticism here -- no matter the spirit in which such criticism may be offered -- but I am not aware of any sort of study or discipline of language called symantics.

Hannibal was well praised for his post to me regarding symantics. If such a discipline may be explained to me, I may also begin to see the reason for the praise that was bestowed on him. I have since researched some on "symantics" but, so far, I have found nothing on it.

If anyone here is knowledgeable on this subject, I would greatly appreciate his/her input.

Thanks.

Faizi

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[This message has been edited by MKFaizi (edited September 14, 2001).]

**MKFaizi** · September 14th, 2001, 11:36 PM

Shatoushka wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>you are rude, forthright, righteous, arrogant, crude, and overall...a fucking bitch. oh yeah...did i mention you are a pathological liar...hmmm.....maybe even a sociopath.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see no evidence of these things in the posts that I have written here.

I began by writing about the great tragedy that has been unfolding in the United States since Tuesday. I made some cogent points and offered some matter for thought and consideration. I have seen little here in response to what I wrote.

What I have seen is a discussion of me and what is deemed here as my disruptive or aggressive nature.

I have made effort to make myself as innocuous and as benign as possible. I have been polite. I have been reasonable. I have been decent.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why you call me a bitch and call me a bitch in what can only be described as a fit of hysterical rage.

What have I done to you?

It began as soon as I posted to Genius Forum at Hostboard. You found what I wrote to be repulsive and sinister. Then, you deleted the posts from Genius and that prompted them to move elsewhere.

Until I posted, you and others from your forum seemed to be greatly enjoying the presence of David Quinn and Dan Rowden. As soon as I posted, that all changed immediately.

Why, Shatoushka?

I have not come here and called you names.

You accuse me as though I must be fully cognizant of the reason for your wrath. But I am not cognizant of that reason.

I have no idea because I have done nothing to offend you.

During the immediate aftermath of the Genius deletions, there was some argument from both sides. I am not the only one who engaged in that and my remarks were fairly mild in comparison to what you have written about me here -- calling me a pathological liar and a possible sociopath.

Please feel free to post the private email that I sent to you a couple of weeks ago. I have nothing to hide.

I am exceedingly sorry that things must be as things are at present. It makes no sense to me. Had I done or said something truly offensive, that would be a different matter.
I am completely astonished by your hysteria.

Faizi

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Thread: which came first--the chicken or the egg?

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