to an unknown god

[marturios]

I see that you are very philosophical in every way. As I browse your hostboard I notice your conversations and comments about god. What you discuss in without adequate knowledge I want to proclaim to you...if you will indulge me a few moments of your time.

'The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.

And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.

From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.

God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

`For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, `We are his offspring.'

Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone--an image made by man's design and skill.

In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.'

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[zelazny]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
As I browse your hostboard I notice your conversations and comments about god. What you discuss in without adequate knowledge I want to proclaim to you
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

may i ask where you found these facts?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.'
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
considering where i _think_ you get these ideas from, how can you speak for a god? of which you previously said that we do not understand him?

aaaaaand, (sorry, i can't help this) what would you say if some other religious book like say the quoran would have a totally different view on this?
(what i'm asking here is, why do you think your particular source should be the right one)

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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.

[Hannibal]

Eh hem, I know the aspect of religion EXTREMELY well thank you. I went to a private catholic school k-8 and had religion class EVERY day. If anyone is unknowledgable in the subject, I suggest you exclude me. I am shocked that you would make such a broad statement to begin with.
Not a very wise idea to openly state something like that about people you have no idea of. Sounds to me like your "assuming" we all have no knowledge of religion. I'm not the only person on this board who went to a catholic school, i know that for a fact. But if you want to continue and insult my inteligence on the area of religion, I then challenge you to a duel.
I mean, I have listened long and hard about why God does exhist and why I should believe, and I still have ample reasons why he could not exhist, questions as to why we should believe etc. So you tell me which side you'd like me to take, and I'd gladly debate

However as to this particular post..
if god created all this, who created god?
and if they created god, who created them? etc... answer that if you can

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As miserable as life may be I hold it pretty precious...

If I lose the light of the sun, I will write by candlelight, moonlight, no light. If I lose paper and ink, I wil write in blood on forgotten walls. I will write always, I will capture nights all over the world and bring them to you.

[This message has been edited by Hannibal (edited October 12, 2001).]

[Devil's Advocate]

I agree with you Hannibal - assumptions are not a great way to introduce oneself to a board. I find that most people who indulge in philosophical thought have a good background in religious thought as well. I am not sure I would use my K-8 experience to prove that I have knowledge about religion, but your response to this new poster is a valid one.

I too did the K-8 Catholic School thing. Though I must say, I learned so much more in my Catholic University 4 years later. The K-8 experience taught me the "this is what we beleive". The University experience taught me "this is why we believe".

I suppose that is your point regarding your ability to argue either side of the situation - I can as well. On one side, the belief - on the other side, the fact. What I find most interesting is that I think that somewhere inbetween these two sides there can be a happy medium. Of course, this is my personal belief and I am not assuming anyone else has the same.

Maybe that's the great thing about religion - if it works for you and causes no harm to self and others - more power to you!! AND... what a topic to debate - one that many avoid for the obvious reason that often times it is deeplly emotionally charged.

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[This message has been edited by Devil's Advocate (edited October 13, 2001).]

[zelazny]

ack.. still no reply by the original poster..
too bad, this could have been fun debate

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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.

[SHATOUSHKA]

maturios doesn't check on his posts as quickly as some would like. this is his affair. but i am almost certain that he will return.

to me, religion and god are two separate things. one can easily understand religion, yet for god, it is not so simple.
another good definition would be 'god'.
in my dictionary, the entry 'god' is followed by:
(scratching all pronunciation and symbols--whats the point?)
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> 1. the supreme reality; the Being (yes it was capitalized) worshipped as the creator and ruler of the universe
<LI> 2. a being or object to have supernatural attributes and powers and to require worship
<LI> 3. a person or thing of supreme value[/list]

now, lets venture to the word 'supreme':
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> 1. highest in rank or authority
<LI> 2. highest in degree or quality
<LI> 3. ultimate, superlative, surpassing, peerless, incomparable[/list]

in posting the passages from my dictionary, i have already come across contradictions (in the definitions), but nevermind that now.
also refrain from posting your version of the definitions because mine came from a dictionary and surely--all dictionaries must be the same--otherwise, how would we have any sense on a definition of a word???? ( )

i ask you personally, can nothing fit this definition of god? have you no god?


someone give me reprieve.




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~~share some greased tea with me~~
General Philosophy

[The Sic Eyed Boy]

cool

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Lambrini girls just wanna have fucks... and cheese ('cos kids'll do owt for Dairylea and that)
Cheese Addicts Anonymous

[marturios]

Greetings friends and apologies for the delayed response. I have not been hiding or avoiding the forum...just taking care of other matters. Thank you for the interest. I hoped to generate some good conversation.

Let's try to stay on point: I pointed us to an unknown God for conversation and consideration.

I find that many intelligent and considerate people either reject God or they prefer a generic "god" without clear boundaries or laws.

In my original post I generalized that some forum participants converse about god(s) without adequate knowledge. That means some talk about what they do not know, they confidently make assertions about someone they do not understand. Many prefer a god made in their own image, but the true and living God who created humanity made us in his image.

My goal is to encourage others to explore a specific person, a God that can be known, who is infinite and personal. The God who is there and is not silent.

I believe everyone has an innate knowledge of God (including you forum posters who might deny it!) . The problem is that we do not like God so we marginalize that knowledge, devise other forms of religion or non-religion to suit our preferences, or simply turn to other created things. Still a few embrace God by faith.

Now before you make any final decisions about who God is, I challenge you to look again (or for the first time). You will see that God has revealed himself to us in at least four ways...



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[SHATOUSHKA]

i am not interested in 'who' god is per se, moreso, 'what' god is.
i do not find arrogance in determining that any 'god' would (have to) be personified.
to me, that is an awful thing to do.
instead, i would (dare) dream that any 'god' would be so much more than mere human imagination.
*sigh*
aye!

perhaps even on the atomic level.

but you know, your guess is as good as mine.
here's for throwing wishes into the wind.

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~~share some greased tea with me~~
General Philosophy

[Hannibal]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>. The problem is that we do not like God so we marginalize that knowledge, devise other forms of religion or non-religion to suit our preferences, or simply turn to other created things. Still a few embrace God by faith.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do think that perhaps you should try not making it so black and white, your forgetting grey. There are people who do LIKE god, unlike how you say everyone dislikes him, thus making your statement completely invalid.
About the idea of God, it is personal, therefore, you are unable to tell one person something, or not tell them something or somehow, or someway, or why they do what they do when it comes to god, like you have done.
But back to your statement, I think to make your statement a bit more valid, you should take into consideration the many more options than you have listed there, and not generalize people into such a small black and white category.
This in itself show's your theories would perhaps need a little polishing.
You talk about the image of God, but, does Gods image really matter? We believe in a god, lest we try to do as he would have us do, and serve for Him. That in itself is enough. He is our Father so to speak and like all faded memories of our biological fathers as children, sometimes we tend to fill in the blank spots with our own ideas. Thus his image doesn't matter, so it is okay for a person to have their own image of a God.
I just completely disagree with what you say on the standpoint that, at least people are aware of the fact that there is religion, and they choose their own ideas in which to form, grow, and believe this. There's more there, but at the current moment I'm having a little troubling voicing all I'd like to say about this. So I shall leave it as is, and wait for your feedback.


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As miserable as life may be I hold it pretty precious...

If I lose the light of the sun, I will write by candlelight, moonlight, no light. If I lose paper and ink, I wil write in blood on forgotten walls. I will write always, I will capture nights all over the world and bring them to you.