THIS HAS GONE TOO FAR!

[GravyTrain]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by doodoo:
I am personally outraged<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thank God you're not "publicly" outraged. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>you claim that this is art<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes I do, kid. What do YOU claim that art is? After all, this is what this topic is all about.

Relax, GravyTrain. We are all adults here, so we can indulge ourselves with issues as subtle as art and sexuality.


Let me address this portion of your post first. What the hell is that first line supposed to mean? Personally and publicly what the hell is that? i was simply stating that I was outraged. What is "Yes I do, kid." I thought you said we were all adults here as stated in your last statement. Make up your mind. Are we all adults, or am i a kid? suddenly your comments have lost alot of validity. What do I claim art is, well, i will agree with the definition supplied by World Book Encyclopedia's Dictionary published in 1989. I realize that it is a bit out of date, but the meaning of words do not change in that drastic of a manner. Here is a defintion they give, "6a special skill: the art of saying things well." i consider that art. granted that is not the idea we are going for here, but it does prove my point that art is viewed by different people in different ways.

How would you feel if a picture of a nude male were posted? you could see nothing but his penis, similar to the effect of the current picture? would that be art? or would that be porn seeing as how i am sure many of the male members of this board would find that highly erotic, this would include gnosis at the top of the list. (hey we all saw the thread "To Gnosis_within")

Now, to my main point, if we are all adults here, how can no one see the point that opposite your views? could it be because you are not quite as intelligent as you claim? intelligence is defined as "the ability to learn and know; quickness of understanding; intellect; mind." you are showing ignorance in not even attempting to see the other side of this supposed conversation. as you claimed doodoo, we are all adults here. so i feel that it is time that all of the posters of this board's intellect caught up to their age and quit looking at this world through rose colored glasses.

------------------
In loving memory of ek3. May he rest in peace.

[This message has been edited by GravyTrain (edited December 13, 2001).]

[SHATOUSHKA]

gravy--
i welcome you to find a piccie of said man (or should i say 'penis'?)

i would love to get another view on the subject.
i would encourage anyone to post piccies to determine what others think.

as a matter of fact, i think it would help everyone in getting to understand everyone else's views.

go ahead.
post a pic.

(and give gnosis a towel. )

------------------
~~share some greased tea with me~~
General Philosophy
Discuss This...
The Acropolis

[GravyTrain]

My reason for not posting said picture is that i find it degrading and as i said earlier, immoral. this is not the place or the entity to be posting nude pictures of any sex. nudity should be kept in the home between two consenting adults, (preferably married). or between a mother and her children (lets all be adults here, you know what i mean). if someone else would like to lower themself to post yet another immoral nude picture, that is their perogative (however you spell it).

------------------
In loving memory of ek3. May he rest in peace.

[This message has been edited by GravyTrain (edited December 13, 2001).]

[SHATOUSHKA]

the fact that you used the terms 'philosophy' and 'immoral' in the same sentence provides adequate support for this type of discussion in this forum.



------------------
~~share some greased tea with me~~
General Philosophy
Discuss This...
The Acropolis

[GravyTrain]

I have a few comments, first, i never used the word philosophy in that post. Second, i did go to that link that was posted, you know, where that "beautiful art" was found. and so i have decided to post another picture from that very site. I hope you will enjoy it. Seeing as how this site was done with the idea of art in mind, i hope you will all enjoy this.

------------------
In loving memory of ek3. May he rest in peace.

[doodoo]

GravyTrain,
The first line supposed to mean that using the adverb 'personally' with the personal pronoun 'I' is a supererogation in syntax. My comment was meant to be a (flippant, I admit) attempt to make a joke. But since you raised the matter, this syntax misuse is a token of people who want to convince both themselves and the others that their own beliefs are inarguably true (which is not the case).
Forgive my paternalistic attitude towards you. Calling you 'kid' was nothing but an expression of condescension. I think you are no less an adult than any other person in this forum. But since you raised the matter, I should give this a second thought.
As for the definition of art: I am disappointed that you had to turn to a dictionary for a definition of art. Most likely, art is not among the things you seem to understand. This dictionary definition, while it meant to be a descriptive presentation of the word, fails to meet the meaning. If 'art' is just 'special skill', then creating nuclear bombs should be considered an art. (A footnote: next time try an encyclopedia. Dictionaries are mostly for foreign language speakers.)
As for the picture of a nude male: it is so sad that you diminish a human being's substance as if it is only a species. Calling a man 'male' in such a context says nothing about the issue, but reveals what is alreeady known: your unease and inconvenience in front of physical appearance.
As for philosophy: this is beyond morality. If philosophy was moral (in your sense), then the philosophical bibliography would reduce to contain only the Bible. But I'm sure you find nothing wrong in this.
As for the pics you posted: my picture was by no means as provocative as the ones you posted. You are the pornographer here, not me. And to think that, since the site I took the pic from is a porn site, then my pic is porn too, is like stating that all people in Sodom were dissolute, including Lot. In my opinion, God may forgive, you may not.
In conclusion: do not address any matters in here, because this philosophical forum may very well turn to pornography. If you don't think that GP is a philosophy forum, there is a great forum that probably meets your expectations. Feel free to have a look at Genius forum

________
P.S. Do not reply.

------------------
UlTm8 BOARDOM

[SHATOUSHKA]

the only thing missing from this chosen smiley for my post is the accompanied sound of my laughing and eventually falling to the floor.

p.s.-- in my eyes, the second piccie you posted, gravy, cannot possibly be considered porn...her nipples are not erect.


------------------
~~share some greased tea with me~~
General Philosophy
Discuss This...
The Acropolis

[Neologism]

I agree with doodoo, in both the the replies that were posted.

But... that pic that was up there before, wasn't porn, the pics that are posted right above are. Loose your inhabitions, perhaps grow up, and let it rest.

The pic up there now.... reminds me of my gandmothers sister.


------------------
what is it that i do exactly?

What?

[gnosis_within]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My reason for not posting said picture is that i find it degrading and as i said earlier, immoral. this is not the place or the entity to be posting nude pictures of any sex. nudity should be kept in the home between two consenting adults, (preferably married). or between a mother and her children (lets all be adults here, you know what i mean). if someone else would like to lower themself to post yet another immoral nude picture, that is their perogative (however you spell it). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

gravy, what is degrading or immoral about a woman posing nude for a picture? it is not like the photographer put a gun to her head.
the woman and the photographer are consenting individuals, so why is it wrong?
and why should nudity be saved for married couples only? i think i smell the stench of religion looming in the background of these posts...........

------------------


[This message has been edited by gnosis_within (edited December 14, 2001).]

[GravyTrain]

i will make the claim that this will be my last post as requested by doodoo. I will feel free to come back occassionaly and view the ridiculous, immature, and unintelligent posts that are qutie often made.

i believe that gnosis has hit the nail on the head when he said that there is religion in the background of my posts. I am a bit surprised in that comment, and have been a bit surprised in some of your posts Mr. H as i will call you to keep your privacy. Considering that you yourself went to a private school, a very sound, conservative Christian school, and here you are turning completely against everything that you learned. I realize that that is your own choice, and all people must make choices. As for the rest of the members of this forum, it sickens me to think of your futures. Seeing as how this is my last post, you do not have to respond to any of this, because i realize that non of you believe in religion (and dont' give me the crap about "What is religion"). you all know what religion is, you are just too intimidated by it because you don't want to admit that there is in fact a greater being that you. I have made it quite clear that most all of you, (there are some exceptions) are so closed-minded it is sad. For being such "philosophers" i would think you would be aware of your own ignorance. When i first came to this forum, i thought it would be enjoyable to converse with other open-minded intelligent individuals, well, i will say that most of you are intelligent (in a perverted sense of the word). however, it has become a chore to try to get my points across, i would like to think that i have become a better person from being a part of this board. i have learned from a majority of you, and i thank you for that. i just wish that in return you also would have been able to be adult enough to see another side of the story (rather it be right or wrong).

As for this final porn/art matter that has come up. I am disgusted with your views of the issue. I would go into religion here, but i will be respectful enough of your views, and not bring them here. I will say that my religion has taught me what i believe. I believe that it is right, and i am confident enough to stand by it. I will also say that i find nudity a beautiful thing. To say i am not a hypocrite in this matter would be lying, which i will not do. I have myself viewed pornography (what you all would call art). Mr. H, you yourself have witnessed this.

In conclusion, I would like to hear a valid definition for both porn and art. The pictures i posted came from the same site as the picture posted at the top of the page. The only differences is that the ones i posted are in color and portray women doing very natural things. According to the definitions i have heard thus far, doing things naturally, as the girl in the picture at the top of the page is doing, is "art". then why might i ask have my posted pictures been labeled as "more provocative." i don't feel that i need to grow up. i think that people need to have more respect for others. I guess after writing all this, that might be the main issue here. It could also be the issue seen in the thread labeled "Stereotypes." If there were more respect, stereotypes would not be assigned, people would recognize when someone is offended by a nude picture, and the world would be a better place.

I have now become irrate and feel that i will end this post. my rantings have more than likely made no sense to anyone and that is fine. i am a better person for expressing my feelings, and i hope that all of you will learn that the world can not revolve around you.

I will end my final post with things that i have commented over and over. All of you need to grow up. All of you need to respect others. All of you need to open your eyes. All of you need to realize that you are not the center of the universe.

Good Bye.

------------------
In loving memory of ek3. May he rest in peace.