it's all arbitrary

[soulfilms]

so i was watching this old movie Anne of a Thousand Days, about Anne Boleyn and i have discovered that religion and beliefs and whatever is so ARBITRARY!

I now whole heartedly believe that all our belief systems and religions are more than likely, the workings of ourselves and not a higher order.

[SHATOUSHKA]

*grins*

i am pleased.
nietzsche was a genius. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

[kaant]

"The basis of religious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet found himself or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being encamped outside the world. Man is the world of man, the state, society. This state, this society, produce religion, an inverted world-consciousness, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of that world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in a popular form, its spiritualistic point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, its universal source of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realisation of the human essence because the human essence has no true reality. The struggle against religion is therefore indirectly a fight against the world of which religion is the spiritual aroma."


Karl Marx
Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Law

[SHATOUSHKA]

i'm sure hegel would disagree... tee hee.

[SHATOUSHKA]

[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[Hannibal]

Ummmm.. if you really think about it... all these men, who created these ideas, and thoughts, and theories that religion is made up by men, were also men themselves... thus their ideas are no stroke of genius. it's just that humans have become so blind to truth they can't see it themselves. So, were these humans so smart they saw beyond what everyone else buys into? Or were they too dumb to not realize what kinda good stuff can come from organized religion?
Don't get me wrong.. I'm not saying I agree with one side vs. the other, i'm just throwing out ideas here.
Because... I have my opinions on this matter, but they will stay locked a way a bit longer..
I've never seen the movie you speak of, but I can safely assume that roles of religion in movies are sometimes overrated, and never correctly given in the right light. And it never could. They could do a movie soley dedicated to the pope, show his every day.. and it wouldn't do the religion justice.
That in itself undermines the whole idea of religion [img]wink.gif[/img]
so... getting an idea about relgion, or thoughts on religion from watching a movie... well, that's not the smartest thing i've ever heard..

[SHATOUSHKA]

i think that what is being said, hanny,
is just what you are suggesting:

religion = man
NOT a higher, cosmological power

we have yet to discuss the er.... benefits
(if any) to organized religion because we
were (re)establishing the fact that religion
IS man-made.

[Hannibal]

But it's pathetic, if you break it all down, everything is man made, thus making everything just as stupid and pointless as religion.
If it's that bad, put a fuckin bullet in your head and find out what's beyond life.


But my main point had to do with making judgements on religion, based upon a movie. Movies are shit when it comes to religion.

<font color="#6699FF" size="1">[ July 11, 2002 01:41 AM: Message edited by: Patron Saint Of Nakedness ]</font>

[SHATOUSHKA]

hmmm...

i think you and SF are talking about
two separate things.

basing your views on a movies prompt
about religion is one thing.
but i'm thinking SF was refering to
something more profound...
like an epiphany she may have had
while watching a movie.

i think that is wonderful. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

p.s.--
i agree with your first two sentences.
of course.....
the thing is, life is a trap. you can't
escape, even in death...

oh wait, nietzsche said that.

[soulfilms]

i agree with shats. i've always toyed with the idea and then watching the movie 'clarified' it all. i first saw it in year 9 history class and all i remember from it was that anne boleyn didn't give her executioner a penny (which was a symbol of forgiveness). watching it again reminded me that henry viii created the church of england, which is viable to this day. so if everyone believes (or was made to believe), it becomes which means that so much of human culture and beliefs are there because it was upheld by previous generations.

i mean, virginity in a girl before marriage is actually a bourgeois construct in making sure the firstborn was really the husband's child and hence, the inheritance was going to where it should, it is not a biblical thing as the bible was translated from the greek (from memory) and it was meant to mean 'young girl'. so if there is so much misunderstanding in this world, who else can we trust except ourselves?