Does the United States Owe Reparations to African

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alex:
Blacks created Wealth for every other group in the United States while they received less than scraps for their own hard work.

As Blacks continued to be denied their own legitimate opportunities to economically grow, they fell further and further behind other cultures economically, and could not fairly compete to improve their own lot in life...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



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Alex

[8th Man]

Black people probably are owed something in the U.S. but simply cutting a check most likely would not be the answer. It would come from the taxpayer's pocket and so many those who would pay would be from families who arrived since the abolition of slavery. No one could argue that a family who just got here should be given that resposibilty. It should have happened a hundred years ago. There may be another answer, but a check wouldn't be the end of anything, and I'm afraid it would ultimately cause more harm than good. Positive change will have to come from within the black community as it can't be handed to them in the form of cash. I feel the largest problems facing the black communitues come from within and not from the lack of a check which could almost be viewed as an insult in some ways.

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PRM

[CyborgShaman]

May I? As a French-born South African, I can say that recently, after abolishing "apartheid" in SA, we were faced with a kinda similar question of "reparation". It made no sense suddenly using the tax payers money to give millions each a relatively small amount of money to say "sorry" So we instituded a "Truth and Reconciliation Council" where everyone could explain their actions and ask forgiveness of those they had treated poorly and of their families etc. It worked beautifully! Much sadness ensued and anger was vented but it was in a controlled environment and as such problems were few and far inbetween.
Today I feel I can safely say that we are a True Nation of One people and most of the sad past is forgiven and forgotten

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There is no death. Only a change of Worlds
My Open Diary

[La Luna Unita]

That sounds like an excellent idea - especially since it gets to the heart of the matter: airing grievances and getting the emotions out that can be so harmful. This is as opposed to a check, which could be viewed as either reparation or (to some) payment to be silent and forget about their past.

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Never ask a man if he is from Texas. If he is, he will let you know. If he isn't there is no use in embarassing him.

[tyledras]

CyborgShaman: interesting thought. Being american, i haven't any idea myself what goes on in south africa, so this is all second hand.
a friend told me when he was in south africa recently he discovered that this view was very often held by the whites of south africa but not by the blacks.
i've discovered that this kind of thing is true in america: there is a very different view usually held by black and white citizens on the issue of race and reparations


personally i don't think i any general group anything. i've been judged before for being white, and had people i'd just met and tried to be friendly with get very upset and in my face with a "You Owe Me" attitude. I was upset by this. If I owe other people I've never met and never interacted with for the sins of my multiple great granparents, then what about the side of my family who fought tooth and nail against slavery, and after the civil war, fought just as hard for equal rights and education for black americans? and what about my native ancestors who suffered humiliations and slaughter by whites? does that mean i am owed reparations? No. I am not. And I don't think I owe people either. I do think there are people who are owed reparations, but that's for recent events. I don't think people owe or are owed anything for such an old and long past event.
*shrug* but that's just my two cents.

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namesake of a rascally tabby, courtesy of Eden
"Damn, tyle, I didn't know you contain atomic material."-Wiloe

[HorseWhisperer]

I myself being a white South African know that we cant change the past, what is being done to give all a chance at life is using the money for giving the people a better education, teaching drafts and agriculture, I think that alot of the lines of segregation are thinning and will one day disappear. RSA is the Rainbow Nation with many different people and culture and we seem to get along fine, I dont think reparations should be paid, just give the disadvantaged an education and a chance to do something with it.

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Un lugar Celestial, I know very little, yet sometimes too much.

[SHATOUSHKA]

QUESTION:

what is meant by 'disadvantaged'?

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~~share some greased tea with me~~
General Philosophy
Discuss This...
The Acropolis

[CyborgShaman]

tyledras: Interesting perspective you bring to the argument and perhaps my ideas are "white only" Strangely, not TRULY being part of the suppression, I was only happy to see what "seems" to be a resolution for our people? Those that I have approached indicated their satisfaction at the Truth & Reconciliation Council's intervention and that they had found a measure of comfort, they'd not have otherwise...


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There is no death. Only a change of Worlds
My Open Diary

[CyborgShaman]

SHATOUSHKA: In SA we constantly coin the phrase "previously disadvantaged" to denote the victims of apartheid who did not have similar opportunities for education and prosperity as their white "oppressors" I do not think this can be related to your situation in the USA really as it appears to have been a situation unique to SA. One thing though I do not understand about the USA: why keep the Native Americans in reservations? To me, they seem to be the disadvantaged in American Society. Am I wrong?


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There is no death. Only a change of Worlds
My Open Diary

[Tard]

(yea, reparations work very well.)


JANUARY 18, 14:23 ET
<h3>Militants Rampage in Zimbabwe</h3>

By ANGUS SHAW
Associated Press Writer

HARARE, Zimbabwe (AP) ? Ruling party militants rampaged through farming districts in northern Zimbabwe Friday, in what the opposition said was an attempt to shut down the areas to its campaigners ahead of presidential elections.

Militants stormed white-owned farms, while members of the ruling party youth militia in green government-issue uniforms manned roadblocks to seal off districts to supporters of the opposition Movement for Democratic Change.

Welshman Ncube, the opposition party's third ranking official, accused President Robert Mugabe's party of creating ``no go areas'' for opposition supporters ahead of the vote scheduled for March 9 and 10.

``Such areas are being systematically extended ... there is no prospect of the elections being free and fair,'' he said.

Mugabe, fighting for his political survival after nearly 22 years in power, has cracked down on the opposition and pushed through legislation tightening security and electoral laws that favor his party.

On Friday, at least 100 slogan-chanting militants stormed a white-owned farm near Karoi, 130 miles northwest of Harare, the capital, demanding white owners immediately leave the property.

Three of nine black workers on the property were assaulted by assailants who smashed down fences and hurled stones at approaching vehicles, said farmer Terry Smit.

Other properties in the Karoi corn and tobacco district were targeted by militants who demanded owners pack up and go, some by the end of Friday, officials of the Commercial Farmers Union said.

Smit said militants drove workers from their homes and threw their belongings onto the road after accusing them of supporting the Movement for Democratic Change.

``They told me they were evicting me today. They are about 30 yards from my door,'' said Smit, speaking by telephone from his besieged farmstead. Drumbeats, singing and pro-government slogans were audible on the line.

Smit said threats of violence from militants intensified since an announcement earlier this month of presidential elections.

Some farm workers bought ruling party membership cards to help them pass through the militia checkpoints.

Without a card, ``you are humiliated. We were made to kneel in the road and beg to be let through and sing slogans,'' said an elderly white farm manager who asked not to be identified.

The youth militias have ignored government assurances that only police are permitted at roadblocks. Police have not prevented the militias throwing up checkpoints.

Since the start of the year government-backed militants have embarked on a fresh looting campaign of white-owned farms, forcing at least 23 landowners from their homes, the mainly white farmers' union says.

Police were on Friday unavailable for comment on violence.

Militants have invaded hundreds of white-owned farms since early 2000 with the tacit support of the government, which called their actions a justified response to inequitable land ownership left by colonial rule.

Most of Zimbabwe's commercial farmland is owned by whites who make up less than half a percent of the population.



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Ambivalent Obsessions
~Ignotum Per Ignotius~