In his discussion group, Cagliostro made a couple of remarks about Christianity in the context of reincarnation that I thought I might address, but didn't want to derail the conversation. So I'll digress here... [img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A couple of preliminary thoughts:It is a much more logical belief system, to me, then the Christian doctrine of "accept me (Christ) and no matter how bad a person you are you can get into Heaven". No personal responsibilty in a belief system like that is there? I have even seen Christian fundamentalist bumper stickers that say, in effect, "Good works will not get you into Heaven. Accepting Christ will..." ... I just don't accept the basic tenets of a religion that seems to be so hypocritical in its basic operations.
By "fundamentalist" I take you to mean "exclusivist," or having a "One Way" theology. If this is how you define the term for this discussion, that's fine, but I fear the term "fundamentalist" muddies the waters, as it is used for violent murderers as well as for even pacifists who believe that there is "only one way" (e.g., Mennonite Christians).
I hate to respond to the idea that Christianity is about allowing one to live a life of selfishness and pride so long as one "accepts Christ" with the overly simple "Well those people just aren't real Christians." But I guess I will [img]smile.gif[/img] It's a perversion of the doctrines of God's grace to "sin that grace may abound." The apostle Paul wrote, "Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" Christianity is about redemption: something has gone wrong, and we are incapable of setting it right. But God in his goodness has provided escape - not a "get off scott free" card, but a complete transformation of something that was dead into something that is alive. A transformation that indeed was not free - it came at an infinite price to the Father.
Paul also talks about "knowing the power of His (Jesus') resurrection." This is the power of the omnipotent One over the wickedness that enslaves us all. Our redemption is toward another end: God receiving glory as He turns us into persons more like His glorified Son Jesus.
I might also point out that many world religions are supporting the cultural status quo: American "Christianity" baptizes all kinds of materialism and pride; in some places, Islam commands the circumcision of women; even Buddhism does so in places like Thailand, where "secret sins" like child prostitution are absorbed by the religion and "baptized," as it were.
The religion of Christ Jesus is never "at home" in any one culture, is always in a position of alienship, and Christians should beware any time they think the culture is "theirs."
You make some very strong arguments in support/defense of your beliefs, and I respect that. I would also like to say that Christ's message has surely been perverted over the past 2,000 yrs by men who use His teachings merely as a political tool, an expedient to gaining control and wealth. Historically speaking the Christian church used the concepts of Heaven/Hell, fire and brimstone and Redemption out to the masses in the proverbial "carrot and stick" approach. This ofcourse allowed the church to control the mostly ignorant and uneducated parishioners (again no offense, I mean this in historical terms before public education raised the level of learning in the general population) This led to very worldly, wicked and greedy popes, bishops, cardinals, etc. The wealth they amassed built up over the centuries to culminate in the explosions of the French Revolution and before that the Reformation and seizure of church assets in England (also a political expedient by Henry VIII but that's another discussion)
As you well know Martin Luther opposed the Catholic Church on many levels and his strongest complaint was against the selling of "indulgences" in effect sinners could "buy" their way into Heaven.
The Inquisition was a dark epoch in the Christian world, as was the Spanish conquest of the New World all in the name of Christ.
Not sure if you are Catholic or Protestant?
I was raised Protestant myself but have come to embrace Buddhism as the closest I have found to my own beliefs. I rambled a lot, sorry. Again, not posting to try to offend anyone who is a sincere Christian. I actually envy those who can embrace a religion like Christianity (or indeed ANY religion) and accept it 100% without seeing flaws and inconsistencies.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 13, 2004 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Cagliostro ]</font>
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