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Thread: Jesus Camp?

  1. #1
    Inactive Member MareUnwritten's Avatar
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    It's getting too quiet around here, so we need some controversy to spark discussion! And lately I think we've all seen something on TV: the upcoming documentary about an evangelical Bible camp titled "Jesus Camp"

    Now, I haven't seen the movie, just the clips they've seen on TV. Generally when there's controversy over a book or movie I like to read it/see it myself before setting forth an opinion. But I have a few thoughts anyways and I would love to hear what ya'll think. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Personally, I think raising your children in Faith is part of being a responsible parent. I went to vacation Bible school as a child and it was a great, faith building experince. What I object to is the footage of the children I've seen sobbing hysterically, going into convulsions and speaking in tonuges. I think that's a little too intense for the 6 to 10 crowd and may end up scaring younger Christians away from the faith when they hit those rough teenage years. There's plenty of influences to lead teens astray, and as one that was temporarily knocked of the path I can tell you I think it's the most critical time in keeping a person in Faith. So I would prefer to see children have positive experinces with Faith and concentrate on the love and mercy of God and Jesus until they're old enough to comprehend the rest of it without being scared.

    My two cents...can't wait to hear yours! [img]smile.gif[/img]

  2. #2
    HB Forum Owner cebula_2005's Avatar
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    Actually, I've never heard of this thing. Sounds interesting, though, and I'm glad you brought this up. From what you've said, it sounds like this is a movie about a VBS type thing? I hope they portray it in a true and positive light. Can you tell me more about this movie?

    As for what you said about raising children in faith, yes, it is part of being a responsible, Christian parent. The Bible even says to raise children in the way they should go.
    As for things being too scary/incomprehensible for children, I think you shouldn't necessarily shelter them from such things. As long as you explain it correctly, there shouldn't be a problem. For example, tell how God is righteous and requires obedience but also tell of His love, mercy, and forgiveness. Don't keep the truth from them, but don't be all "God will smite you if you sin" either. I guess it's really important what you teach your children about God. I don't think He needs you to be a PR person, though, telling only the good things about Him to make Him popular. That would be omitting some of the truth from the child's education.
    Still, I don't think it is necessarily the job of the media to teach the children these kinds of things. It is really the job of the parents or trusted adults known to the children. This is why I don't think this movie, if it shows things like that, is necessarily a good thing for children. It should be up to the parents to decide whether or not their children shoudl see this kind of thing, and if they think the children should see this kind of thing, they should explain things carefully to their children after they've seen the movie.
    I wouldn't want a kid to see something that portrays Christianity in a bad light without explaining how Christianity is right and good to that child.

    And that's my [img]graemlins/money.gif[/img]

    Thanks for bringing up this topic. [img]smile.gif[/img]

  3. #3
    Inactive Member sharlit's Avatar
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    I don't think this is geared toward children. (It is rated PG-13.)

    Where do talking in tongues and convulsions come into the Bible?

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    Inactive Member MareUnwritten's Avatar
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    The documentary is not for kids, but is ABOUT a real life camp where children are sent, similair to summer camp but with a very Evangelical message. So what we're seeing in the documentary is an actual program that real children are sent to during the summer, similiar to the atypical summer camps we all are familiar with.

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    HB Forum Owner cebula_2005's Avatar
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    I'm not sure where the convulsions come in, but tongues is a common thing in the Bible.
    Mark 16:17-18
    "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

    Note that Jesus is not advocating going around willy-nilly drinking poison or picking up snakes. He is simply saying that if you have faith and God wills it, these things can be done for/through those who believe in Him.

    Speaking in tongues is a sign for unbelievers
    1 Corinthians 14:22
    Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.

    This is when the Holy Spirit descended on all believers at Pentecost.
    Acts 2:4 says
    All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

    Speaking in tongues is a spiritual gift that comes from the Holy Spirit.
    1 Corinthians 12:7-11
    Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

    This is not to say that everyone who claims to speak in tongues really does so or that everyone who has faith can speak in tongues. But God can certainly make us to speak another language other than the one we know if He wants to. The key is, it must be God's will. We can't just go around asking to speak in tongues and expect this gift to be given to us because maybe God does not will it for you to speak in tongues. (This is the same as why God sometimes does not answer your prayers the way you want Him to...it is not really in your best interest and it is not His will.)

    You have to be careful how you take this, however. There is a certain way to speak in tongues that Christians should do. Going into convulsions and basically making other non-Christians think you're insane is not the right way to do it. Also, you're not supposed to speak in tongues without someone interpreting it for the people.(
    1 Corinthians 14:13
    For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says.

    1 Corinthians 14:27-28
    If anyone speaks in a tongue, two?or at the most three?should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.)

    <font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 05, 2006 01:26 AM: Message edited by: Tra ]</font>

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    HB Forum Owner cebula_2005's Avatar
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    I just looked up convulsions. Apparently it is a sign of possession by an evil spirit.

    Luke 9:39
    A spirit seizes him and he suddenly screams; it throws him into convulsions so that he foams at the mouth. It scarcely ever leaves him and is destroying him.
    Luke 9:42
    Even while the boy was coming, the demon threw him to the ground in a convulsion. But Jesus rebuked the evil spirit, healed the boy and gave him back to his father.
    Mark 9:20
    So they brought him. When the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth.

    <font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 05, 2006 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Tra ]</font>

  7. #7
    Inactive Member sharlit's Avatar
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    Heh. Evil spirits cause rabies.

    So I always thought the speaking in tongues thing was usually non-sensical, but the Bible passages make it sound like speaking in a language besides one's own. Am I wrong in thinking the tongues of the Evangelical church are usually not an existing language?

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    HB Forum Owner cebula_2005's Avatar
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    I've heard it as both. It is definately other languages, though, since the Bible says that.

    Acts 2:6-12
    When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?"

    I don't know if there is another way of speaking in tongues that can be not another language.

  9. #9
    Inactive Member MareUnwritten's Avatar
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    Well, judging from the passages Tra posted, the speaking in tonuges that was shown in clips from "Jesus Camp" were most likely the hysteria induced type.

    And Tra, I do think children should learn there are consequences to actions and that God, like all parents, much discipline His children because only He knows what is best for them. But heavy talk into ethics about things like abortion is not for the under 10 crowd, IMO, and I'm a very pro-life Catholic saying this. If the child is too young to know how the baby is made, they're too young to know in detail how some murder their babies. Better to leave it as "it's wrong to kill ANYONE" and explain the wrong of abortion when it's time to tell them about sex.

    Just my two cents of course, and I don't have kids...so definetly not trying to bill what I've said as "advice". [img]wink.gif[/img]

  10. #10
    HB Forum Owner cebula_2005's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not necessarily saying tell them the gory details of partial birth abortions or things like that. But "don't kill anyone" is a must. I suppose I would say something like "Even when the baby is inside you, it's still a person so you shouldn't do anything to hurt it." Just like they shouldnt' hurt anyone. And yes, I would tell the kids that babies come from "inside their mommys" (not necessarily HOW they get there except "God puts them there" of course...) [img]smile.gif[/img]

    That movie does sound like it would need to be previewed by a parent first and then give a lengthy explaination to the kid before he/she watches it IF the parents think it is appropriate for the kid. I am by no means saying that everything is appropriate for children. But some children can handle more than others.

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