God created us to wonder about these things, too. If we didn't wonder, how would we know anything?
if God created sin then why do we have punishment from it?????? Its like a parent saying "child it okay for you to play in the road today, and do what ever you want" and when the child does these things as the parent has said it okay, the parent punishes the child. Maybe you were saying something else but some of what you are saying seems illogical when puttin it into a scenario of life and reasoning on it more. [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img]
Another fascinating subject [img]smile.gif[/img]
Life w/o sin. Hmmm [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img]
First of all, I don't see how it could be boring. Look around you. How much variety do you see in the world. Climates, colors, talents, personalities, species, languages - these were all things created by God, and those are just things on THIS planet! Just think of what's out there in the universe for us to explore?!! I could be quite happy for many years just traveling THIS planet, if I didn't have to work for food and shelter, which are consequences of sin. A God with that big of an imagination, that created us in His image, wouldn't expect us to do the same thing every day, nor all be the same! We may not be able to comprehend how the world would be without sin, because we've never experienced it, but it wouldn't be LESS of anything except evil, and pain. In fact, I'd be willing to bet it would actually be MORE of everthing else.
Second of all, I don't think we'd be cookie cutter people! Can you imagine a place where you could eat anything without getting poisoned or fat or sick? How about a place where you could lay down with a lion and scratch his soft belly fur like a kitten's, in complete safety? Picture walking all day without blisters or pain! Flying without the fear of crashing! Imagine a place where people wouldn't steal your stuff, start wars, or force you to pay taxes! Picture a place where you would KNOW what your gifts were, and be perfectly trained to USE them?!
I would LOVE to sing acapella in a professional choir, to study different forms of dance and practice them to perfection, and to spend time alone trying to describe the beauty of a sunset over the Rockies, or a sunrise over the Mediterranean! Maybe someday, in heaven, I'll get those chances! But those dreams don't belong to everyone, they belong to me. Yet, I'll bet that everyone has dreams like mine. Things that they could do that would make them feel complete...as though they were created for exactly these things! I've met people who liked their jobs like that, they are NOT boring, and they're NOT cookie cutter people!
I'd like to go into more, but I'm falling asleep! (Another symptom of the fallen world!)
Heaven, or a sinless earth boring? [img]redface.gif[/img] No way!
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 29, 2006 02:32 AM: Message edited by: Lissiefan ]</font>
God din't create sin.
God did not say playing in the road was "okay" but then punish us for it later.
He wants us to do things His way, because its the right way, and it will end up best for us!!!
But he doesn't want us to be dumb robots lol and so He gave us free will. We can choose what we want to do.
We can choose what we want to do- BUT that doesn't mean there aren't right choices and wrong choices.
We can do what we want but there might be consequences to bad decisions. Just like there are rewards with good decisions.
If you don't believe God created sin...
how do you reconcile that with your belief that *nothing* in this world could possibly exist without being created by God? [img]confused.gif[/img]
Also, are you familiar with Isaiah 45:7?
The original Hebrew words in the most intriguing part of this verse: "bara ra." Translation: "I create evil." That is not a loose translation, or an interpretation--it's what the words literally mean. And it's the wording used in both the King James and Douay-Rheims versions:
"I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things."
You may have a modern version of the bible that sanitizes this to "I create calamity." Not that this changes the meaning all that much.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 31, 2006 12:29 AM: Message edited by: Voice-of-Reason ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">evil doesn't have to mean sin. the word evil can mean ANY number of things. evil has a VERY wide range of meanings.Originally posted by Voice-of-Reason:
If you don't believe God created sin...
how do you reconcile that with your belief that *nothing* in this world could possibly exist without being created by God? [img]confused.gif[/img]
Also, are you familiar with Isaiah 45:7?
The original Hebrew words in the most intriguing part of this verse: "bara ra." Translation: "I create evil." That is not a loose translation, or an interpretation--it's what the words literally mean. And it's the wording used in both the King James and Douay-Rheims versions:
"I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things."
You may have a modern version of the bible that sanitizes this to "I create calamity." Not that this changes the meaning all that much.
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ January 31, 2006 12:29 AM: Message edited by: Voice-of-Reason ]</font></font>
I always thought that sins were defined by evil actions (thoughts, etc)
Go created us and gave us free will and we can choose what we want to do...God did not create sin but there is always ALWAYS free will. Lucifer chose to go against God, and then He tempted Eve in the form of the snake, and that's what started the downfall of Man.
Ok first off had Adam and Eve not taken a bite and the world was "perfect" we would not loose free will. Take a look at the angels. Lucifer was God's favorite angel, and he became too prideful (doesn't sound like everyone in heaven is a mindless zombie). Lucifer didn't fall alone. Then look in genisus where after the fall of man angels began to look at the daughters of man and reproduced with them creating the nephilium. It was their off spring and the fallen angels (the second fall) that wandered the earth prior to the flood. When God sent the flood, he cast those who had fallen into tarterous (sp?) and bound them in chains, who are waiting to be released to this day during armedgedon. Sounds like you can still be sassy in a perfect world. I believe that the fruit of the tree was the knowledge of the flesh, not of right and wrong. If Adam and Eve could not conseve of right and wrong how would they have known better than to eat the apple.
As for God and sin/evil. In the beginning there was ONLY God. Evil wasn't floating out there with him... it was part of him... no ladies hold your horses... I am not saying God is evil, only that he is capable of evil. See what we know to be evil are the choices and actions that God himself choses not to act upon. What God does is good. Everything God does is good, he sets our example of perfection. Now the choice to do evil is still his own and is instilled upon him. Emotions that we see as bad in ourselves, such as anger and jealousy God readily has. He even calls himself a jealous God, and becomes quite irked all throughout the bible (Check exodus when Moses has to reason with God to calm down). But God can keep his emotions in check... he is God after all... we can not. So we as imperfect creatures will go to an extreme which is sin and what we know as evil. Evil is simply actions that God finds undesirable but not foriegn to him. We know Jesus was tempted, but being God he was able to resist such temptations as they are undesirable to him. It is most complicated.
I also do not believe in a physical **** . I believe heaven is where ever God is. Not an actual place. It would be akin to being filled with joy completion etc, why **** is total isolation from God. Imagine if you will moments of despair, loneliness, and anguish you have had in this life time. It feels as if your soul is afire. Unquinchable flames. Without God that is all you have.
I told you guys I can go on and on!
So Nellie, are you saying that Adam and Eve and the apple was the only test? If they had passed it, then the world would be perfect, but we could still sin? Or is there no possibility of the world remaining perfect because someone will sin? Or is this not what you meant? You said the apple only showed Adam and Eve the sins of the flesh? So how does that account for all the other issues attributed to the fall of Eden like painful childbirth and illness and death and rain... Since you are putting forth the effort to share your views, I want to make sure I am understanding them.
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