Let us not sit by as they erode our rights as Christians!

[sharlit]

We can make a person feel less a person than ourselves with make their sin sound worse than our own.

[cebula_2005]

You're right. All sins are equally bad. Even one condemns you under the Law of God. Fortunately He has sent His Son to die for us, paying the ultimate price for our sins. If we accept His Gift, we are saved. This does not mean it's ok to sin, for those who truly saved will try their best not to sin, but it does happen. Those who sin on purpose, knowing it is wrong and not trying not to do it, are not truly saved.

[BohemianMare]

Just to add my two cents....

I do think there is a negative attitude becoming more and more present towards Christians. If you don't believe me, then why do I get dirty looks when I go out to eat and say Grace, including making the Sign of the Cross? Why do people on other boards (that I have since left) get so worked up if you have a Bible quote in your siggie or if you talk about being Christian? I've seen it down right to the point of bashing Christians and posting very disrespectful images of Jesus and the Pope. And why, oh why, the **** does everyone get so ruffled up about people saying "Merry Christmas"?!

Honestly, we are getting obsessed with political correctness. Not just about religion, but it plays a big part in things. This is a Christian nation, built on Christian principles, and populated 85% by Christians. So, honestly, I don't think Christians should have to be treated in a manner as if their beliefs are shamefull, because they're not. Whatever happened to majority rule?

[cebula_2005]

True! There is absolutely nothing shameful about being a Christian!

I find it funny that those who profess to be the most "tolerant" religion-wise are always bashing Christians for being "intolerant." Who's the intolerant one, then?

[sharlit]

Of those 85% Christians, what beliefs are you sure they all share?

[BohemianMare]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of those 85% Christians, what beliefs are you sure they all share? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would say they all share a belief in God, the Ten Commandments, believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God and died on the cross for our sins.

If you think about it...doesn't that cover the important parts? There's alot of squabbling between denominations, but when it comes down to it, Christ is Christ.

[cebula_2005]

People may not agree on all the little things, but most Christians hold a few things to be deep, fundamental, basic truths of life. We are all united under Christ. That's what's important.

[stormchaser]

Dear Tra,

I suppose I see where you are coming from here. Don't worry, I do respect your faith. I won't criticize it. I do, however, think you're being foolish. Christians have more rights than any other religion. Let's have a look.

We are no longer allowed to pray in school, it is politically incorrect to witness, and truth is no longer seen as truth, but rather as a truth that someone...considered the winner of the battles of history...has decided to be called truth.

For one thing, you are allowed to pray in school. The thing is just that you don't HAVE to anymore. As for the truth thing, you sound smart. Come on. Surely you have to admit that it is not concrete truth. I'm not saying it isn't; all I mean is that
it's foolish to think it's definitely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, truth.

On we go.

e must stop lying down before those who wish to oppress us, otherwise we will truly be oppressed; eventually the time will come when Christians are once again martyred.

Oh please. Something like 90% of Americans are Christians. Don't tell me you feel oppressed. You are allowed to stand on a soap box in the middle of downtown and start preaching, at least where I live. Don't tell me that sounds like oppression.

For the rest, I agree wholeheartedly that you can't worry about offending people too much. It's just that no-one considers it offensive to pray at school.

You say gay people are being oppressed? Why? They still have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex. They just choose not to.

Yes. Yes they do. And why do they choose not to? BECAUSE THEY'RE GAY. It is oppression for them not to be allowed to marry the same sex. What you're saying sounds like, "Oh, I'm not allowed to have this opinion, but I am allowed to have that one, so I'm not being oppressed."

With all the people saying that Christianity is wrong and fighting for laws against Christian values, I'd say liberalism and such has a bigger hold on the country than ever before. It's scary, actually. I mean, the further we turn from God, the more likely our country will fall and the more likely we will die (in both a physical and spiritual way.)

No-one says it's wrong. Where the **** are you getting your information here? And why would we die physically if we stopped being Christians? Do you have any idea how much less bigotry there would be if there were no religion, period?

I am totally against hate crimes, but when the GSA encourages people to accept the sin of homosexuality, then I see a problem.

There's a large difference between ENCOURAGING and
ALLOWING.

Lying, like all sins, is wrong. Homosexuality and lying, unfortunately, occur often. Yes. But we don't have to (nor should we) accept sin just because it occurs too often.

So squelching christianity is bad, but squelching homosexuality is good? Has it ever occurred to you that other people might have different morals than you? That to some people it's not a sin?

I find it funny that those who profess to be the most "tolerant" religion-wise are always bashing Christians for being "intolerant." Who's the intolerant one, then?

For once I agree. I do think that many Christians are intolerant, but Christianity isn't, by any means. What did Jesus teach? Tolerance. It's just as bad to be intolerant of Christianity.

Well, that's my opinion. Naturally you don't have to agree. I am trying to be tolerant here... religion in general makes me really frustrated that so many people believe in it when there's no reason to, and that it causes so much hate, but I do respect your opinion. At least your faith-based ones.

[cebula_2005]

First off, Welcome to the board!

Secondly, yes I believe that Jesus and God and what God has said in the Bible is beyond the shadow of a doubt, concrete, irrefutable truth.

I do feel oppressed, yes. When I am looked down upon because of my faith, I feel oppressed. When I am considered foolish or less intelligent or less tolerant than others because of my faith and my convictions, I feel oppressed. I am no stupid. I know that others believe differently (and some even believe the polar opposite) than what I believe. I realize that to everyone, morals seem to be different. I realize that everyone's going to have a differing point of view and opinion on things. I also realize that this does not change the truth. It's like trying to make solid rock less solid simply because we don't all believe it is the same rock, or it is solid. That doesn't make it any less solid, nor do others' opinions on God make Him any less real and His Way any less right.

Many people find it offensive that some even believe in God or try to show others the right Way.

They choose to be gay.

When you say no one says it's wrong, you mean Christianity, right? Well, many, in fact almost everyone who is not Christian sees CHristianity as wrong. When you say "Christianity may be right" you are not saying it is right, just that it is possible, and to me, that is the same thing as saying it is wrong. Jesus said in Luke 11:23 "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters."
Besides that, there are many who say that it is wrong to believe in one absolute truth...which Christians do.

There is not bigotry because of religion. Bigotry is a result of hatred and stupidity...not Christianity. Christianity says to love everyone, but to hate the sin. Not tolerating sin is not bigotry. I'm sure, though, that if there were no religions, there would still be a whole lot of bigotry. It would just be over different things.

It is wrong to encourage or allow a sin.

I know that to some people, homosexuality and other things are not sins. That does not make them any less of a sin in the eyes of God. And His opinion is what really matters.

Thank you for stating your opinion. We need a little new blood on the board, and I'm glad you're here. You have stated your opinion in a civil and respectful manner and I appreciate that.

It may seem like hatred to not tolerate everything, but think of this: if a parent allowed a child to do whatever they wanted, even though it was bad for them, would that be love or hatred?

I'll close with this: Christianity does not cause hate. It causes love. Galatians 5:22 says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

[stormchaser]

Secondly, yes I believe that Jesus and God and what God has said in the Bible is beyond the shadow of a doubt, concrete, irrefutable truth.

Wow.

Okay.

*holds in laughter*

I do feel oppressed, yes. When I am looked down upon because of my faith, I feel oppressed. When I am considered foolish or less intelligent or less tolerant than others because of my faith and my convictions, I feel oppressed.

Those may be true sometimes, but only by anti-christians. Again, some 90% of Americans are Christians. Do you expect me to believe that 10% of the population "looks down on you" and you feel oppressed because of it?

I am no stupid.

I'm sorry, if I didn't know that was a typo I'd have to say something really sarcastic.

I know that others believe differently (and some even believe the polar opposite) than what I believe. I realize that to everyone, morals seem to be different. I realize that everyone's going to have a differing point of view and opinion on things. I also realize that this does not change the truth. It's like trying to make solid rock less solid simply because we don't all believe it is the same rock, or it is solid. That doesn't make it any less solid, nor do others' opinions on God make Him any less real and His Way any less right.

Naturally, you're right. But, since many people don't see the rock to be so solid, there's no reason to try to make them to.

Many people find it offensive that some even believe in God or try to show others the right Way.

So? It's not like they run the government.

They choose to be gay.

Did you know the scientists have implanted a gene into fruit flies that makes them gay? Do you think they are choosing to be gay?

When you say no one says it's wrong, you mean Christianity, right? Well, many, in fact almost everyone who is not Christian sees CHristianity as wrong.


Ummm...

Yeah. That's why they're not christian. Am I banging my head against a wall here?

When you say "Christianity may be right" you are not saying it is right, just that it is possible, and to me, that is the same thing as saying it is wrong. Jesus said in Luke 11:23 "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters."
Besides that, there are many who say that it is wrong to believe in one absolute truth...which Christians do.

Once again, you're right. And once again, those people aren't exactly oppressing you.

There is not bigotry because of religion. Bigotry is a result of hatred and stupidity...not Christianity. Christianity says to love everyone, but to hate the sin. Not tolerating sin is not bigotry. I'm sure, though, that if there were no religions, there would still be a whole lot of bigotry. It would just be over different things.

I would say there's bigotry because of Religion. Especially because of, you know, holy wars and unimportant stuff like that. [img]graemlins/wonder.gif[/img] Also, you say not tolerating sin is not bigotry. That depends on your definition of sin, doesn't it?

It is wrong to encourage or allow a sin.

Once again, non-christians don't have to live by your rules. It's not wrong to let people do what they want.

I know that to some people, homosexuality and other things are not sins. That does not make them any less of a sin in the eyes of God. And His opinion is what really matters.

Not really. I'd rather do what I want now and go to **** than believe in something I don't and go to heaven.

It may seem like hatred to not tolerate everything, but think of this: if a parent allowed a child to do whatever they wanted, even though it was bad for them, would that be love or hatred?

Right, but at least we know both that there is a parent and what exactly the parent's word is.

I'll close with this: Christianity does not cause hate. It causes love. Galatians 5:22 says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

That depends on the circumstances, doesn't it? The crusades looked a lot like hate to me.