First off, I totally agree that no one knows the true birthday of Jesus. I watched a thing on this several years ago and they believe that Jesus was actually born in September...had something to do with the stars in the sky and how certain planets lined up, which could have been the bright star the shepherds saw when Jesus was born.
Now, just suppose for a moment that God truly is the ruler of this planet and the Bible account is true. As you know, I tend to take God literally on most things, and I like to think and ponder on these things. Well, here is a thought that came to me after watching that particular show. From December until September...that's a perfect 9 months. And the Bible says that God knew you before you were born. So it just may be that God counts the conception of Jesus as His actual birth and it may not be just a coincidence that His birthday is in December, when they actually think His birth took place in September. If we're truly celebrating the conception of Christ, then I think that speaks volumes about the pro-choice movement...but then, that's another topic to get into later! [img]wink.gif[/img]
Moving right along. [img]biggrin.gif[/img] The Bible is full of stories of how pagans worshipped different gods. I am well aware that the Christmas tree is a pagan thing, but pagans were not the first or last to worship other gods and make up holidays. All I see is that Christian's developed holiday's that would celebrate our Savior's birth and death. No one knows the exact date of these events, but someone along the way determined when we'd celebrate these things. Yes, pagans have been around a long time, so have Christian's. I don't think it's just mere man who has caused Christianity to become the religion that it has...if God is the supreme being that I know Him to be, He is at the root of spreading the gospel and making it what it is today. Man can be helpers of that, and they can also be harmers of it. I'm sure that back in those days, religions clashed and scraped out their holidays...but the one true religion that really has not changed since those days is the religion that believes in the Bible...and look how old the Bible is.
I don't know if I'm answering your questions right or not...maybe I'm not quite understanding what you're getting at. If I'm totally off with this responce, I'll try it again! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jormy:
Stormy.. you said this "I would never expect another religion to change what is sacred to them so that I would feel more at ease. That would just be the epitome of selfishness."
I say bullspit! Not you persay, but Christian Priests took over the Pagan holidays so that the people would feel "more at ease" and their new religion could take hold.
Read this and tell me what you think, it was on snopes btw.
Claim: The day celebrated as Christmas (December 25) is the actual birthday of Jesus.
Status: Undetermined.
Origins: The
biblical narrative of Jesus' birth gives no date for the event, though it more likely occurred in spring than in winter. Saint Luke tells us that shepherds were "abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flocks by night" ? shepherds guarded their flocks day and night only at lambing time, in the spring; in winter, the animals were kept in corrals, unwatched. Happy birthday to me . . .
It is important to note that for two centuries after Christ's birth, no one knew, and few people cared, exactly when he was born. Birthdays were unimportant; death days counted. Besides, Christ was divine and his natural birth was deliberately played down. In fact, the Church even announced at one point that it was sinful to contemplate observing Christ's birthday "as though He were a King Pharoah."
The idea of celebrating the Nativity on December 25 was first suggested early in the fourth century CE, a clever move on the part of Church fathers who wished to eclipse the December 25 festivities of a rival pagan religion, Mithraism, which threatened the existence of Christianity.
On December 25 (the date of the winter solstice) pagan Romans, still in the majority, celebrated Natalis Solis Invincti, "Birthday of the Invincible Sun God," Mithras. The Mithras cult originated in Persia and rooted itself in the Roman world in the first century BCE, but by the early 300s CE the rising religion of Christianity was posing a formidable challenge to the sun worshipers, especially after the Edict of Milan issued by the Roman emperor Constantine I in 313 CE allowed Christians to practice their faith in the Roman Empire.
In those tenuous early days of Christianity, however, Church fathers debated strategies for supplanting the Mithras cult with their own religion. Since it was well known that Roman patricians and plebians alike enjoyed festivals of a protracted nature, Christians recognized that they needed an alternative to the December celebration of Natalis Solis Invincti. They needed a celebration in which all participants ? Mithraists, Christians, and those in between ? could take part with pride. Accordingly, the Church officially recognized Christ's birth, and to offer head-on competition to the sun worshipers' popular feast, the Church located the Nativity on December 25. The mode of observance would be characteristically prayerful: a Mass. In fact, Christs' Mass. As one theologian wrote around 320 CE:
We hold this day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the sun, but because of him who made it.
Although centuries later, social scientists would write of the psychological power of group celebrations ? the unification of ranks, the solidification of collective identity, the reinforcement of common objectives ? the principle had long been intuitively obvious. Christianity took permanent hold in the Western world in 337 CE when Constantine I was baptized on his deathbed, uniting for the first time the Crown and the Church.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 21, 2006 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Stormyskies ]</font>
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