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Thread: John Kerry's comments

  1. #1
    Inactive Member senorina's Avatar
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    I am SHOCKED.

    I cannot believe he said those words, and I think he is making a HUGE mistake for refusing to apologize.

    Speaking at Pasadena City College:

    ?You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don?t, you get stuck in Iraq.?

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    HB Forum Owner onelove's Avatar
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    I want to see what was said in context before I react. I'm curious. What is offensive to you in that statement?

    I think it is currently inaccurate as we don't have a draft right now. But to deny the role of class in who serves in our armed services right now is, well, denial. Education opens up a lot of pathways. The military is one of the routes that remains open to poor people without a degree. I'm not saying middle class people don't serve, but they certainly don't have the economic push that the working poor do.

    Once again this is without context. I'll read up and report back.

  3. #3
    HB Forum Owner onelove's Avatar
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    I went and read a bit. I guess I'm not offended. I see how people could read it as an insult to the intelligence of the troops. I don't read it that way.

    I read it as, "Education is power. It opens up choices to you. If you have less power you may be forced to make choices that put you in harms way."

    I think Americans want to deny the issue of class. It is the 800 lb gorilla in the room that no one wants to talk about.

    The people I know that serve or served in the military are smart. (With one exception) But they were also people who were in it for the money. I'm not saying they weren't patriotic, because they are to varying degrees. But they started out for the monetary benefits that go with service. I think the role of brother or sisterhood also played a powerful role once they were in the service.

    I see no signs that middle or, heaven forfend, upper class kids are beating down the door to serve right now. If patriotism were the motivation for enlistment it would seem service should be even across the classes. That just ain't so.

    I'm willing to bet that being "stuck" in Iraq is exactly how many people would feel about it if they were there.

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    Inactive Member senorina's Avatar
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    Originally posted by onelove:
    I want to see what was said in context before I react. I'm curious. What is offensive to you in that statement?

    I think it is currently inaccurate as we don't have a draft right now. But to deny the role of class in who serves in our armed services right now is, well, denial. Education opens up a lot of pathways. The military is one of the routes that remains open to poor people without a degree. I'm not saying middle class people don't serve, but they certainly don't have the economic push that the working poor do.

    Once again this is without context. I'll read up and report back.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I purposely put it without the context first because I wanted to replicate the shock I felt when I first heard it.

    First - my shock is that what a huge insult to people in the military that they aren't smart and educated!

    Second, HE says that he was making a joke aimed at the president...I am stretching trying to believe him...but i kind of don't.

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    Inactive Member feelinggreat's Avatar
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    I was watching Chris Matthews and he said that when you watched more than that two sentence clip of Kerry?s speech it was clear he was talking about BUSH and not the military. Then I watched some more of Kerry's speech and it was clear that he was not referring to the military.

    A lot of people have no patience to find out what the truth is so they accept some carefully orchestrated sound bite from the republicans as the whole story. I hope more will take the time to read or listen to the whole speech that Kerry gave.

    From cnn.com:
    A Kerry aide told CNN that the prepared statement, which had been designed to criticize President Bush, "was mangled in delivery."

    Kerry was supposed to say, "I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Imagine if people demanded (with loud, pompous indignation) that Bush apologize every time he mangled his lines! Would there be time for anything else?


    Good for Kerry for fighting back:
    Transcript of John Kerry Responding to Attacks on his Remarks

    Today in a press conference in Seattle, Washington, John Kerry responded to Republican attacks and partisan efforts to distort his botched George Bush joke.

    Below is a transcript of Kerry?s remarks, as delivered:

    SENATOR KERRY: Let me make it crystal clear, as crystal clear as I know how: I apologize to no one for my criticism of the president and of his broken policy.

    If anyone owes our troops in the fields an apology, it is the President and his failed team and a Republican majority in the Congress that has been willing to stamp -- rubber-stamp policies that have done injury to our troops and to their families.

    My statement yesterday -- and the White House knows this full well -- was a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops.

    The White House's attempt to distort my true statement is a remarkable testament to their abject failure in making America safe. It's a stunning statement about their willingness to reduce anything in America to raw politics. It's their willingness to distort, their willingness to mislead Americans, their willingness to exploit the troops, as they have so many times at backdrops, at so many speeches at which they have not told the American people the truth.

    I'm not going to stand for it.

    What our troops deserve is a winning strategy. And what they deserve is leadership that is up to the sacrifice that they're making.

    Sadly, this is the best that this administration can do in a month when we have lost 100 young men and women who have given their lives for a failed policy.

    Over half the names on the Vietnam wall were put there after our leaders knew that our policy was wrong. And it was wrong that leaders were quiet then, and I'm not going to be quiet now.

    This is a textbook Republican campaign strategy: Try to change the topic; try to make someone else the issue; try to make something else said the issue, not the policy, not their responsibility.

    Well, everybody knows it's not working this time, and I'm not going to stand around and let it work. If anyone thinks that a veteran, someone like me, who's been fighting my entire career to provide for veterans, to fight for their benefits, to help honor what their service is, if anybody thinks that a veteran would somehow criticize more than 140,000 troops serving in Iraq and not the president and his people who put them there, they're crazy.

    It's just wrong. This is a classic GOP textbook Republican campaign tactic.

    I'm sick and tired of a bunch of despicable Republicans who will not debate real policy, who won't take responsibility for their own mistakes, standing up and trying to make other people the butt of those mistakes.

    I'm sick and tired of a whole bunch of Republican attacks, most of which come from people who never wore the uniform and never had the courage to stand up and go to war themselves.

    Enough is enough. We're not going to stand for this. This policy is broken. And this president and his administration didn't do their homework. They didn't study what would happen in Iraq. They didn't study and listen to the people who were the experts and would have told them.

    And they know that's what I was talking about yesterday. I'm not going to be lectured by a White House or by the likes of Rush Limbaugh who's taking a day off from mimicking and attacking Michael J. Fox, who's now going to try to attack me and lie about me and distort me.

    No way. It disgusts me that a bunch of these Republican hacks who've never worn the uniform of our country are willing to lie about those who did.

    It's over.

    This administration has given us a Katrina foreign policy: mistake upon mistake upon mistake; unwilling to give our troops the armor that they need; unwilling to have enough troops in place; unwilling to give them the Humvees that they deserve to protect them; unwilling to have a coalition that is adequate to be able to defend our interests.

    Our own intelligence agency has told us they're creating more terrorists, not less. They're making us less safe, not more.

    I think Americans are sick and tired of this game. These Republicans are afraid to stand up and debate a real veteran on this topic. And they're afraid to debate -- you know, they want to debate straw men because they're afraid to debate real men.

    Well, we're going to have a real debate in this country about this policy. The bottom line is: These Republicans want to distort this policy. And, this time, it won't work because we are going to stay in their face with the truth.

    And no Democrat is going to be bullied by these people, by these kinds of attacks that have no place in American politics. It's time to set our policy correct.

    They have a stand-still-and-lose policy in Iraq and they have a cut-and-run policy in Afghanistan. And the fact is, our troops, who have served heroically, who deserve better, deserve leadership that is up to their sacrifice, period.

    QUESTION: Senator, John McCain said that you owe an apology to the many thousands of Americans serving in Iraq, who answered this country's call because they are patriots.

    To those people who didn't get your joke, who may have misinterpreted you as saying the undereducated are cannon fodder, what do you say?

    KERRY: I never said that, and John McCain knows I've never said that and John McCain knows I wouldn't say that.

    And John McCain ought to ask for an apology from Donald Rumsfeld for making the mistakes he's made. John McCain ought to ask for an apology from this administration for not sending in enough troops.

    He ought to ask for an apology for putting our troops on the line with a policy that doesn't have an adequate coalition, that doesn't have adequate diplomacy, where we don't have a strategy to win.

    And what we need is to debate the real issues, not these phony, sideline issues that are part of the politics. Americans are tired -- sick and tired of this kind of politics.

    They know my true feelings. They know I fought to provide additional money for veterans. They know I fought to provide money for combat for veterans. They know I've fought to put money for V.A. They know I've honored those veterans.

    They know that this is the finest military -- and I've said it 100,000 times -- that we've ever had. They know precisely what I was saying.

    And they're trying to turn this because they have a bankrupt policy and they can't defend it to the nation and they can't defend it to the world.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The truth hurts and I expect to see a boatload of republicans yelling "Waaah. Look over there!!! Pay no attention to our failure and corruption. " Hopefully voters won't be swayed by yet another manufactured distraction.

  6. #6
    Inactive Member senorina's Avatar
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    I watched the entire Chris Matthews segment, and I still think that what he said was very bad, and he should apologize.

    I really think this will hurt him.

  7. #7
    HB Forum Owner onelove's Avatar
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    I'll be honest. I don't think he is going to be the nominee in 2008 regardless of this remark. I don't think the comment will keep him from getting reelected to the Senate, so I don't think it will hurt him in that way.

    I also think the war is very unpopular right now. I don't think he will catch flack for the stuck in Iraq part of the comment.

    I also don't think that the people who would be most offended by the remark were likely to vote for him as a presidential candidate anyway. He's not adding more people that hate him. He's just irritating the ones that already do.

    As far as midterms....I don't think the Republicans talking about it will help their cause at this point. Maybe with GOTV, but not with wooing new voters.

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    Inactive Member senorina's Avatar
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    Originally posted by onelove:
    I'll be honest. I don't think he is going to be the nominee in 2008 regardless of this remark. I don't think the comment will keep him from getting reelected to the Senate, so I don't think it will hurt him in that way.

    I also think the war is very unpopular right now. I don't think he will catch flack for the stuck in Iraq part of the comment.

    I also don't think that the people who would be most offended by the remark were likely to vote for him as a presidential candidate anyway. He's not adding more people that hate him. He's just irritating the ones that already do.

    As far as midterms....I don't think the Republicans talking about it will help their cause at this point. Maybe with GOTV, but not with wooing new voters.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">well I have to agree that I didn't think he had a chance at the presidential run - but he disagrees with both of us on that!

    I think the troops are going to be VERY infuriated over the comments.

    I've been watching the speech over and over -

    HIS audience was pretty shocked in my opinion. First there was silence, then a bit of nervous laughter.

    Kerry is saying it was a botched joke aimed at the president.

    Well if it was botched, why not apologize about it coming out wrong?

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    Inactive Member feelinggreat's Avatar
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    As far as midterms....I don't think the Republicans talking about it will help their cause at this point.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree. Kerry has fought hard for the military and has spoken out when this administration has short changed them. They won't buy into the distortion. Let's remind people that Osama has bin forgotten. And ask what the heck is going on in Iraq.

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    Inactive Member senorina's Avatar
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    OOOHHH OUCH - now he made fun of fat people!!

    He said he won't be lectured to by....and the "doughy" Rush Limbaugh..

    wow.

    now I'm no fan of Rush - but why not say the idiot/stupid/wierd Rush instead of the "doughy" Rush?

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