I know for a fact that Abe has a 250 constructed just for dueling.
I don't have one capable of dueling at the moment, but I may put one back together in the future.
Ive been thinking, (and yes it hurts.) Is anyone interested in actually playing one-on-one 5-Color?
The Friday Night Casual Magic group is great, and I dont mind multi-player, but is anyone interested in actually playing 5-Color duels one-on-one? Multi-player though fun gets frustrating when as soon as you get your deck going you have to deal with "random" Wrath-effects or being ganged up on because youre perceived as the greatest threat.
Im trying not to whine here, but there is something detracted from the game when its multi.
Im not super-interested in playing for real ante, but I do miss the one-on-one side of the game. Perhaps we could do $1 buyback, or crap rare ante, or something else (or nothing at all) but I do miss the strategy of one-on-one duels.
Am I barking up the wrong tree, or is there any interest in this?
I know for a fact that Abe has a 250 constructed just for dueling.
I don't have one capable of dueling at the moment, but I may put one back together in the future.
You know, now that I think of it, I'd still enjoy some dueling. My decks are way too slow to compete, but it's still fun. Plus, Jason and Brett have 250s as well. We could set up some dueling in the back or something for a couple hours. I'm sure Jason and Brett would like the experience as it would help them tune their decks.
Ante would most likely be unnecessary unless you're really attached to it. I'm sure we could do something like $1 buyback or crap rare if need dictates.
I don't have a 5-color deck that is any good for dueling, nor do I have the funds to create one at this time. Though I still enjoy duels with my slow as hell casual deck.
As far as frustration with multiplayer goes, I felt that too but it takes some time to really learn how to play multiplayer and designing a deck that can work well in multiplayer is another trick.
Classic examples that are a big no no in multiplayer. Or at least things that paint large targets on your dome.
1. Being a Haddix.
2. Playing a sliver, yes even just one (most tribal usually raises flags unless ppl know your deck).
3. Playing a card that puts a clock on everyone but you.
4. Talking about the combo you are about to pull off 2 turns before you get there.
5. Being a Haddix.
6. Doing anything that applies to the DBAD rule.
7. Making the Abe (aka Wes) angry, even if he is playing his limited 250.
8. Playing a Mirari's Wake.
9. Killing one or more players in a single turn from near full life.
10. Having 2502378623945 critters or permanents when everyone else has less than they can count on one hand.
Those are some examples of things I have experienced in someway that just do go well in our multiplayer group. For me the solution was playing a lot more control and since I love control anyway it was fine.
I guess what it comes down to is playing toward our meta. Wraths happen a lot and recovery is key and having answers to pretty much anything is also key. I don't know if this information will be of any help to you, you probably already know most of it, but the game as we play it becomes a lot more fun when all those problems just become minor set backs or even boons.
<font color="#C0C0C0" size="1">[ February 12, 2007 11:32 AM: Message edited by: jrr ]</font>
Just ask Aaron about the janky 250 deck I had when I got started on 5-color... Now its much better and I'm actually starting to think about building it to a theme more than just a general 5-color deck.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I understand the metagame fairly well, and can accept that random mass-removal effects can be expected.Originally posted by jrr:
I don't have a 5-color deck that is any good for dueling, nor do I have the funds to create one at this time. Though I still enjoy duels with my slow as hell casual deck.
This is Exactly what Im interested in. Anyone can put together an Uber-Kick-Your-Ass Duel deck if they dismantle all of their regular decks. I dont want to dismantl emy regular decks. I just wantto play some duels with my regular decks so that if I do any of the itemized no-nos from your list I dont get summarily executed.
Classic examples that are a big no no in multiplayer. Or at least things that paint large targets on your dome.
1. Being a Haddix.
2. Playing a sliver, yes even just one (most tribal usually raises flags unless ppl know your deck).
3. Playing a card that puts a clock on everyone but you.
4. Talking about the combo you are about to pull off 2 turns before you get there.
5. Being a Haddix.
6. Doing anything that applies to the DBAD rule.
7. Making the Abe (aka Wes) angry, even if he is playing his limited 250.
8. Playing a Mirari's Wake.
9. Killing one or more players in a single turn from near full life.
10. Having 2502378623945 critters or permanents when everyone else has less than they can count on one hand.
<font color="#C0C0C0"><font size="1">[ February 12, 2007 11:32 AM: Message edited by: jrr ]</font></font>
Some of the rules are political, and if you cant keep your mouth shut (No-no #4) or not be a dick (No-No #6) you probably wont win multi-player anyways.
But I dont think its necessarily healthy that one should be "holding back" (No-no #10), or restrict their card selection (No-no #8), or ban an entire deck archetype (No-no #2) just to slip under the radar.
I have three, soon to be four, casual 250 decks. I dont disagree that they probably play better in a duel rather than in a multi-game. I still enjoy playing them regardless of the format.
Example: My 250-Mishra Artifcer deck in multi-player sucks. there is no way against 5 other players than I can dodge every StP, WoG, Damnation, etc when I am up against 5-times as many card draws. My Mishra deck honestly doesnt even do that well in duels, but at least in a duel, Im on even card-drawing with my opponent. A lot of my casual decks are like this.
So in conclusion, without the occasional duel, Im probably destined to lose most of my games at the multi-player table.
The suggestion might be to tear apart my casual duel decks, and build a general purpose multi-deck; but if I do that, wouldnt I be doing the reverse of why someone would nt build a duel deck in a casual group on the first place?
With more causal 250 duels it's anyone's game. Essentials vs Abe's super happy billion card deck is most often a toss up.
I think in a duel that Brett's fairly new work in progress deck could easily beat the essentials, or any of my other decks. A portion of the casual 250 duels are luck. Skill is of course involved, but luck is a large factor in those matches.
Now, the more tuned and tourney minded a 250 will usually roll most casual 250. But there's still luck. I've played a tourney aggro 250 vs Abe's whore of a deck and lost. A lot. Well, at least more than I should. An aggro 250 should steamroll most casual, typically slower, 250's.
I think that 250 duels are a good idea. Sure, mana screw or simply being outclassed will lose you some games, but I think the experience is worthwhile. The most complexity that ever hits the multiplayer game typically happens with the last two guys trying to use their 250s to finish each other off. Duels just take out the roadblocks and politics.
I'm still going to play some multiplayer this Friday, but now I'm excited for some 250 dueling. And, Jason or Brett, if you fear your decks ability to win a 250 duel I will play my white boardered highlander 250 of suck against you. (:
Just a note on my list of 'rules'. Those are just examples that can cause you to lose, but by no means are they going to always do that. Sure I may have a wake on the board but opponent xiddah has enough mana to obliterate and drop a phage of doom and destruction.
As you mentioned, a lot of it is politics, and a lot of that is playing the right cards at the right time. I'm not saying tear apart your deck, but maybe a deck or two that is designed with multiplayer in might would do you a lot of good and make you feel less frustrated (mmm syphon soul and congregate). Do far I have enjoyed your decks, especially seeing that mishra one work, it was fun and fesh and new. The sliver deck is a little less exciting for me for a few reasons, main I hate sliver more than I hate mill decks, but also I know what sliver can do when 4 or 5 are on the table at one. On the other hand I know what WoG does to slivers too so it balances out pretty fast (might want to add come Congregation at Dawns toy uor sliver deck btw).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Who's Xiddah?Originally posted by jrr:
but opponent xiddah
(mmm syphon soul and congregate).
Syphon Soul and Congregate are like anti-tech. Life gain is teh bad. Syphon Mind is much better. I'd rather have a full clutch than a life buff any day.
Haddix backward... how did you not pick that up in the given context?
And yes those are just the classic multiplayer card. Everyone knows them and they do powerful things in large games. I agree Syphon Mind is way better I just couldnt think of that card while I was typing. I don't have lunch money today and I'm starving and my bank still hasnt sent me a debit card...
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